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Ash955

WW1 & WW11 Medal Research

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Ash955

Hi everyone,

I usually court mount and work with medals for current or recently retired military personnel but I've been asked to help with displaying a set of WW1 and a set of WW11 medals in frames for a gift for a family member. I have a couple of queries that I'm hoping you can help with me with?

The family has 2 WW1 medals that are attached to a brooch. These are the British War Medal and The Victory Medal. There seems to be no suggestion of there being the 1914 or the 1914-1915 Star so I'm assuming that this is a Mutt & Jeff pair. There is however one other "Victory" ribbon attached to a broken medal (Picture attached). Does anybody have an ideas as to what this could be? I haven't seen anything about a Victory ribbon being worn with a medal that has a straight clasp like this and without the medal itself I can't see what it was for. The clasp has aged to the same degree as the British War Medal leading me to suspect that this was in fact part of the WW1 set of medals however it could equally be for the WW11 set. Does any body have an ideas what this could have been?

Apologies that this is the wrong forum as it's for WW11 medals but I'm hoping someone here may be able to help with this too...
The set has The 1939-1945 Star and the France and Germany star, two Defence Medals and the 1939-1945 War medal. Am I right in thinking that there is a Defence Medal for each of the Star medals? I believe that the family would like both of these displayed anyway so this is purely for my own interest. Can anyone just confirm the order that these would be in for display?

Many thanks in advance, I'm looking forward to learning along this journey!

Ashleigh

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depaor01

Don't see a picture...

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ss002d6252
6 minutes ago, Ash955 said:

Apologies that this is the wrong forum as it's for WW11 medals but I'm hoping someone here may be able to help with this too...
The set has The 1939-1945 Star and the France and Germany star, two Defence Medals and the 1939-1945 War medal. Am I right in thinking that there is a Defence Medal for each of the Star medals? I believe that the family would like both of these displayed anyway so this is purely for my own interest. Can anyone just confirm the order that these would be in for display?

 

Try ww2talk.com for WW2 related questions.


Craig

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Ash955

331945C4-F624-43AD-8301-EC0E62183082.jpeg

2 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

 

Try ww2talk.com for WW2 related questions.


Craig

Thanks!

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Keith_history_buff
55 minutes ago, Ash955 said:

The family has 2 WW1 medals that are attached to a brooch. These are the British War Medal and The Victory Medal. There seems to be no suggestion of there being the 1914 or the 1914-1915 Star so I'm assuming that this is a Mutt & Jeff pair. ...


Many thanks in advance, I'm looking forward to learning along this journey!

Ashleigh

 

Hi,

You should be able to consult either the medal index cards or the medal roll to determine whether or not your family member had served in a theatre of war prior to 31 December 1915 and had an entitlement to a third medal.

 

Thanks

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Matlock1418
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ash955 said:

The family has 2 WW1 medals that are attached to a brooch. These are the British War Medal and The Victory Medal. There seems to be no suggestion of there being the 1914 or the 1914-1915 Star so I'm assuming that this is a Mutt & Jeff pair.

Welcome to GWF.

You haven't given us a name etc. so hard for GWF to consider the WW1 entitlement specifically

As you have these WW1 medals you should find details on the rims so you can check the National Archives https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ or Ancestry for MIC and Medal Roll etc. for WW1 medal entitlement [and Ancestry and Find My Past may also have Service Records if they survived the WW2 Blitz as 'Burnt Records'.etc.]

For WW1, WW2 and other medals you can also try the British Medal Forum https://britishmedalforum.com 

As has been earlier suggested ww2talk.com http://www.ww2talk.com/index.php may help further with WW2 [without risking going 'off-topic' for GWF]

Good luck

:-) M

Edit: Sorry, have duplicated a bit of what has gone before!

Edited by Matlock1418
edit

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rksimpson

Hi

 

Picture is of the Victory medal ribbon on what looks like the suspender for the British War Medal. See here - http://www.greatwar.co.uk/medals/ww1-campaign-medals.htm (or maybe one of the ones below it?) I don't think it is a WW2 suspender.

" Am I right in thinking that there is a Defence Medal for each of the Star medals?" - read here for criteria https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility

DIsplay - WW1  star, BWM and Victory, WW2 as you have noted above.

regards

Robert

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clk
Posted (edited)

Hi Ashleigh,

 

Might a Territorial Force War Medal be a contender? The colour doesn't seem right though. A name and number from the other medals should help to confirm, or otherwise.

image.png.f7822f17c54353966c4b16310704ff12.png

Image sourced from Wiki

 

Regards

Chris

Edited by clk

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RNCVR
Posted (edited)

The 1WW Victory medal ribbon is on a British War Medal suspension that has been cut off the War medal disc.

 

You need to get the recipient's MIC that will give you his 1WW medal entitlement.

As others have mentioned you need to provide his name & number(s).

Thanks,

Bryan

Edited by RNCVR

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Matlock1418
3 hours ago, Ash955 said:

I usually court mount and work with medals for current or recently retired military personnel but I've been asked to help with displaying a set of WW1 and a set of WW11 medals

Just a quick observation from my experience - for both periods of WW medals - is that the most common original mounting for wear for many recipients [especially those who didn't have 'posh' dress uniforms] is the swing mount.

As for framed displays I have little experience to offer - though I would point out that most military museum displays do usually seem to present as swing-mounted too.

:-) M

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TullochArd
Posted (edited)

Hello Ashley, 

 

What are the details on the rim of the two medals (BWM and BVM) that you have?  We can no doubt take it from there. 

 

All "period" Great War medals were worn loose mounted by the wider military as standard.  Court Mounting - common today - was uncommon then.  The medals were issued separately, and unmounted, to discharged servicemen hence the inconsistent manner of wearing these by many ex-servicemen around this time.  As such, lots of ribbons and medals end up mismatched.  Regarding the ribbon and clasp - you can see the wider (39mm) BVM ribbon does not fit the damaged (32mm) clasp..... I'd offer it's probably a red herring.

 

Regards.  Ian

 

Edited by TullochArd
Gooder English

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Ash955

The only medal with engraving details on is the BWM - 23046 PTE.W.Rushby. Linc.R.  W presumed to be Wilfred. Yes I agree that I wouldn’t court mount these medals. They don’t want them mounted at all for wear, each medal will be displayed through a slot with about 2 1/2 inches of (replacement) ribbon about 1/2 inch between each medal. Any searches you have access to that I don’t would be appreciated!

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IPT
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Ash955 said:

The only medal with engraving details on is the BWM - 23046 PTE.W.Rushby. Linc.R.  W presumed to be Wilfred. 

 

He was William, entitled to a pair.

 

The SWB roll may hold further information.

 

Edited by IPT

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Ash955
9 hours ago, clk said:

Hi Ashleigh,

 

Might a Territorial Force War Medal be a contender? The colour doesn't seem right though. A name and number from the other medals should help to confirm, or otherwise.

image.png.f7822f17c54353966c4b16310704ff12.png

Image sourced from Wiki

 

Regards

Chris

Yes that's a good shout however it's definitely not from a bronze coloured medal

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RaySearching

Pte William Rushby 23046 Lincs Reg  enlisted 15/4/16 discharged (sick) 15/11/18  SWB no B405 92

 

Ray

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Ash955
26 minutes ago, IPT said:

 

He was William, entitled to a pair.

I keep finding William Rushby in my own searches however the medals have a Silver War Badge. William Rushby died in 1918 and is buried in Pas de Calais France. The only reason I’m doubting this is the same person. The WW11 medals are for his son, Tom Rushby

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RaySearching
10 minutes ago, Ash955 said:

I keep finding William Rushby in my own searches however the medals have a Silver War Badge. William Rushby died in 1918 and is buried in Pas de Calais France. The only reason I’m doubting this is the same person. The WW11 medals are for his son, Tom Rushby

 

Looks like the medals were awarded to father and son,  father ww1 son ww2

with the information you have provided

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Ash955
20 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Pte William Rushby 23046 Lincs Reg  enlisted 15/4/16 discharged (sick) 15/11/18  SWB no B405 92

 

Ray

Thank you. This must be him. The service number is a match and the discharged information fits with the badge!

 

4 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

 

Looks like the medals were awarded to father and son,  father ww1 son ww2

with the information you have provided

Yes correct. Tom Rushby is the Son of W Rushby

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Ash955
50 minutes ago, IPT said:

 

He was William, entitled to a pair.

 

The SWB roll may hold further information.

 

The pair being the British War medal and the Victory medal? 

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RaySearching
23 minutes ago, Ash955 said:

The pair being the British War medal and the Victory medal? 

 

Correct

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Ash955
3 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

 

Correct

Thank you!

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Ash955
2 hours ago, RaySearching said:

Pte William Rushby 23046 Lincs Reg  enlisted 15/4/16 discharged (sick) 15/11/18  SWB no B405 92

 

Ray

The SWB has 61629 on the back...

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clk
Posted (edited)

Hi Ashleigh,

 

13 hours ago, Ash955 said:

The family has 2 WW1 medals that are attached to a brooch.

 

If the brooch looks like this, it's probably his Silver War Badge:

image.png.c735e3c6522931ac5ac8f76aab06e13f.png

Image sourced from the LLT

 

image.png.9ff573daa43e5e088a249102513a6a42.png

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

If it were to be a SWB, the reverse should show the 'B' number.

 

His medal roll record indicates that he first went overseas to serve as an 8/Lincs man, before serving with the 7th Bn.

image.png.a49a5e27c8f1bc54481533629fa214f0.png

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

As his service file no longer appears to exist, I think that it would be difficult to establish when he was sent overseas; and when/why he was transferred to the 7/Lincs. He seems to have been with them though no later than August 1916, as Findmypast have a hospital admission/discharge record which reads as:

 

First name(s): W

Last name: Rushby

Service number: 23046

Rank: Private

Unit: 'A' Company, 7th Bn Lincolnshire Regiment

Admitted to 51 Field Ambulance 25 Aug 1916 suffering from enteritis, and discharged to 20 Casualty Clearing Station 26 Aug 1916

 

Given his enlistment date of 15.4.1916, and his 'hospital' date of 25.8.1916, after initial training in the UK, he may have been sent overseas to serve with the 8/Lincs, but thinking out aloud on my part, he may have been redirected to the 7/Lincs on arrival at the Infantry Base Depot.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by clk
Inserted hyperlink

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Ash955
23 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi Ashleigh,

 

 

If the brooch looks like this, it's probably his Silver War Badge:

image.png.c735e3c6522931ac5ac8f76aab06e13f.png

Image sourced from the LLT

 

image.png.9ff573daa43e5e088a249102513a6a42.png

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

If it were to be a SWB, the reverse should show the 'B' number.

 

His medal roll record indicates that he first went overseas to serve as an 8/Lincs man, before serving with the 7th Bn.

image.png.a49a5e27c8f1bc54481533629fa214f0.png

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

As his service file no longer appears to exist, I think that it would be difficult to establish when he was sent overseas; and when/why he was transferred to the 7/Lincs. He was with them though no later than August 1916, as Findmypast have a hospital admission/discharge record which reads as:

 

First name(s): W

Last name: Rushby

Service number: 23046

Rank: Private

Unit: 'A' Company, 7th Bn Lincolnshire Regiment

Admitted to 51 Field Ambulance 25 Aug 1916 suffering from enteritis, and discharged to 20 Casualty Clearing Station 26 Aug 1916

 

Given his enlistment date of 15.4.1916, and his 'hospital' date of 25.8.1916, after initial training in the UK, he may have been sent overseas to serve with the 8/Lincs, but thinking out aloud on my part, he may have been redirected to the 7/Lincs on arrival at the Infantry Base Depot.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

That’s brilliant. Thanks so much. Yes it’s definitely the Silver War Badge but it only has “61629” engraved. We don’t have the certificate for this to cross reference though.

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TullochArd
8 hours ago, Ash955 said:

The only medal with engraving details on is the BWM - 23046 PTE.W.Rushby. Linc.R.  W presumed to be Wilfred. Yes I agree that I wouldn’t court mount these medals. They don’t want them mounted at all for wear, each medal will be displayed through a slot with about 2 1/2 inches of (replacement) ribbon about 1/2 inch between each medal. Any searches you have access to that I don’t would be appreciated!

 

So the BVM is a blank?  Now that what would be strange.  Regarding the medal ribbons - although it is a family matter - original ribbons, which were common in the 60's and 70's, are very much like hen's teeth these days.  I'd always try an use the original where possible ...... even that length you have on the broken suspender looks good.  As you know "modern" repro BVM is also rarely the correct width.  Nice project - good luck.  Ian    

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