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CasseRae

EDWARD CARTER Gunner 82nd brigade Royal Field Artillery

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CasseRae

Am now researching EDWARD CARTER Gunner 82nd brigade Royal Field Artillery Service Number 199328

Died 22/03/1918.

Dependant's pension card shows he died of Gas, but looking carefully at UK, WWI War Diaries (France, Belgium and Germany), 1914-1920
Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery 18th Division Piece 2024/3: 82 Brigade Royal Field Artillery (1915 Jul - 1919 Mar)  I see no sign of gas on the 22nd March.

Could this be an error do you think please?

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Michelle Young

He is buried in Noyon, so presumably died as a result of gas poisoning. I would surmise that he was gassed on a preceding day, possibly during the massive bombardment that preceded the opening of the Kaisers Battle of 21/3/18. 

 

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CasseRae
Posted (edited)

Thanks Michelle that was something I don't believe I read.  A bit unsure I had the correct battalion. Cheers. Will look up again.

 

Now read the sentences I missed - thanks - what is H.E. ( mixed with certain amlount of gas )?

Edited by CasseRae

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Michelle Young

High Explosive

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PRC
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CasseRae said:

18th Division Piece 2024/3: 82 Brigade Royal Field Artillery

 

The Divisional History "The 18th Division in the Great War by G.H.F. Michols can also be read online. Hopefully this link will take you to the right place in the book.

http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100022557085.0x000002#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=286&z=-0.2617%2C0%2C2.5234%2C1.6311&xywh=-1088%2C0%2C5539%2C2702

Page 256 has a general note on how the Batteries of the Divisional Artillery were deployed in the run up to the German Offensive.

Page 257 specifically references that 82nd Brigade RFA was supporting the 55th Infantry Brigade. The front line unit of that Infantry Brigade was the 7th Buffs, in the Battle Zone were 7th Queens , while the other Infantry Battalion, 8th East Surreys, was in Divisional Reserve.

 

Page 259

“The Boche Bombardment began at 4.40 A.M., a bombardment that swelled into a deep roar along the whole front. The 18th Divisional area back to the Crozat Canal was drenched in gas, and as the German artillery programme developed, it became clear that for the first two hours their gunners were searching for our guns; next, their object was to bombard our infantry positions with gas and high explosives; afterwards hundreds of mortars assisted in a culminating crescendo of shelling that acted as escort to the advancing German infantry and continued to ravage our positions and road approaches. Our own out-numbered guns replied spiritedly, and at 5.12 A.M. our troops manned the “Battle Stations.”

Pages 262 – 265 covers the exploits of members of the 83rd Brigade RFA.

82nd Brigade gets a mention on page 266 & 267.

Gunner Charles Edwin Stone of 83rd Brigade would win a V.C on this day and a narrative of the deeds he carried out to win it are on pages 268-269. But in response to you query it’s pretty much the second sentence that is relevant. “Stone had started the day by working at his gun for six hours under gas and shell fire.”

The attempted extrication of the remaining guns of 82nd Brigade is covered at the bottom of page 269 and onto page 270. At 18.00 the order came for the Division to retire behind the Crozat Canal, with the artiilery going first in order to provide covering fire for the infantry.

(Page 273) “Eight 18-pounders and five 4.5 howitzers belonging to the 82nd Brigade were got safely across the Crozat Canal. The two 18-pounders of the rear section of B/83 were the only guns of the 83rd Brigade saved. Ammunition was got up, and the guns fired all through the night.”

Page 276 – both Brigades were in action along a line behind the Bois Hallot.

Page 277 & 278 mention heavy bombardments at various times on the 22nd – one at 6 p.m. forced the final two guns of the 83rd Brigade to be abandoned.

 

The opening entry for the 7th Queens War Diary on the 21st March 1918  records:-

4.45 a.m. Enemy barrage commenced. Intense bombardment of forward area & LIEZ village. VIEVILLE, VIVIER QUENET & VERGER WOODS heavily gassed.

http://qrrarchive.websds.net/PDF/QW00719180302.pdf

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

Edited by PRC
Typo

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MaxD

The account in the 82nd Bde diary is pretty detailed too.  You have probably found the sentence on 21 March - At 4 32 am the enemy opened a very heavy bombardment with HE mixed with a certain amount of gas shell, on infantry front positions, on approaches and on battery positions. They were still receiving HE and gas at 5.30 am and bombardments continued.

 

82 Bde suffered 15 killed on 21/22 March which you'll note the diary doesn't, as is normal, mention.  Your man was in B Battery which, at the start of the day had 2 guns forward and 4 further to the rear.  (With reference to the map/image below) the forward guns were in the bottom right quadrant of square N 17 west of Vendeuil, the other four were in the right bottom quadrant of square N 19 to the south of Remigny.  https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14&lat=49.71563&lon=3.32205&layers=101465350&right=BingHyb

 

The firing of gas mixed with HE shell was quite normal, designed so that the detachments had to don their gas masks which impeded their activities a little (although the diary highlights how well practiced the brigade was at serving the guns while wearing their gas helmets) .

 

His CWGC entry has a concentration record which shows that he was originally buried near to where he fell and moved after the war to the cemetery where he now lies.   However , the record, which would show where he was initially buried, refuses to load for me!!

 

Max

 

 

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clk

Hi CasseRae,

 

The amount of War Gratuity shown as paid in his Soldiers' Effects record is indicative of calculated war service counting from circa January 1917. Having joined up, It would appear likely that he originally arrived at No. 3 Depot RFA (in Hilsea) in mid January 1917. Papers show:

 

199314 Cuff - to 3 Depot 18.1.1917

199318 Lewis - to 3 Depot 18.1.1917

 

Edward has a surviving 'will' - link

 

36 minutes ago, MaxD said:

His CWGC entry has a concentration record which shows that he was originally buried near to where he fell and moved after the war to the cemetery where he now lies.   However , the record, which would show where he was initially buried, refuses to load for me!!

 

It doesn't work for me either. Might it be worth contacting the CWGC?

 

It looks like British War Graves may be able to send you an image of his current resting place.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

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MaxD

Update.  The glitch on the CWGC site is fixed so the grave registration details can be seen.   Edward Carter and seven other men for whom the exact whereabouts of their graves are now unknown since exhumation from other cemeteries are commemorated as "buried near this spot" .. Extract from CWGC details:

 

Of these, nearly 100 are unidentified and 108 other identified collectively but not individually, are marked by headstones superscribed: "Buried near this spot".

 

Full details:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/64104/noyon-new-british-cemetery/

 

 

The place from which he was moved after the armistice was the Old British Cemetery on the eastside of Noyon where 46 CCS and 44 FA were established in March 1918 and from which all graves were removed to Noyon  New British Cemetery.  He may well have been taken there and died from wounds

 

 

Max

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CasseRae
On 04/07/2020 at 19:36, PRC said:

 

The Divisional History "The 18th Division in the Great War by G.H.F. Michols can also be read online. Hopefully this link will take you to the right place in the book.

http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100022557085.0x000002#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=286&z=-0.2617%2C0%2C2.5234%2C1.6311&xywh=-1088%2C0%2C5539%2C2702

Page 256 has a general note on how the Batteries of the Divisional Artillery were deployed in the run up to the German Offensive.

Page 257 specifically references that 82nd Brigade RFA was supporting the 55th Infantry Brigade. The front line unit of that Infantry Brigade was the 7th Buffs, in the Battle Zone were 7th Queens , while the other Infantry Battalion, 8th East Surreys, was in Divisional Reserve.

 

Page 259

“The Boche Bombardment began at 4.40 A.M., a bombardment that swelled into a deep roar along the whole front. The 18th Divisional area back to the Crozat Canal was drenched in gas, and as the German artillery programme developed, it became clear that for the first two hours their gunners were searching for our guns; next, their object was to bombard our infantry positions with gas and high explosives; afterwards hundreds of mortars assisted in a culminating crescendo of shelling that acted as escort to the advancing German infantry and continued to ravage our positions and road approaches. Our own out-numbered guns replied spiritedly, and at 5.12 A.M. our troops manned the “Battle Stations.”

Pages 262 – 265 covers the exploits of members of the 83rd Brigade RFA.

82nd Brigade gets a mention on page 266 & 267.

Gunner Charles Edwin Stone of 83rd Brigade would win a V.C on this day and a narrative of the deeds he carried out to win it are on pages 268-269. But in response to you query it’s pretty much the second sentence that is relevant. “Stone had started the day by working at his gun for six hours under gas and shell fire.”

The attempted extrication of the remaining guns of 82nd Brigade is covered at the bottom of page 269 and onto page 270. At 18.00 the order came for the Division to retire behind the Crozat Canal, with the artiilery going first in order to provide covering fire for the infantry.

(Page 273) “Eight 18-pounders and five 4.5 howitzers belonging to the 82nd Brigade were got safely across the Crozat Canal. The two 18-pounders of the rear section of B/83 were the only guns of the 83rd Brigade saved. Ammunition was got up, and the guns fired all through the night.”

Page 276 – both Brigades were in action along a line behind the Bois Hallot.

Page 277 & 278 mention heavy bombardments at various times on the 22nd – one at 6 p.m. forced the final two guns of the 83rd Brigade to be abandoned.

 

The opening entry for the 7th Queens War Diary on the 21st March 1918  records:-

4.45 a.m. Enemy barrage commenced. Intense bombardment of forward area & LIEZ village. VIEVILLE, VIVIER QUENET & VERGER WOODS heavily gassed.

http://qrrarchive.websds.net/PDF/QW00719180302.pdf

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

It does Peter a great deal.  Many thanks for all of that. I do apologise but I have only just seen this response. 

 

On 04/07/2020 at 19:36, PRC said:

 

 

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