forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) I would love to just find out who is who in these two photos, have identified a third photo, but these are eluding me. The families were based in high wycombe area. I have ww1 records that point to Alfred James Hudson dob 1887, ox and bucks, but nothing defining, as to why he would be in spurs (I am going by Hudson family likeness as well looking at another Hudson ) The chap in shorts looks much like a Stratford, but I am down to between Henry Stratford dob 1887 who was in Kings Liverpool reg. And archie Thomas Stratford, dob 1998, who was ox and bucks, India depot.. Just he looks too old for a photo taken 1916..17..18 Am I correct thinking both cap badges are ox and bucks LI? Edited 4 July , 2020 by forester Spelling add photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 4 July , 2020 Admin Share Posted 4 July , 2020 Only one photo showing. Man in shorts. Very hard to make out cap badge, but there's a T above the curved shoulder title. And possibly a harp on the cap badge, or possibly the horse of the Kings Liverpool, but without a clearer image, hard to say. Second photo is of men of the Royal Artillery. Neither of the photos are OBLI. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 Thankyou, that is of help immediately.. Lol I was going by the shape of the badges, and I was sure same shape as some I gave found in a tin from those two families, with the long gun on a wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 4 July , 2020 Admin Share Posted 4 July , 2020 The more I look at man in shorts, the more I can see a horse now, plus possibly a two row shoulder title, below the T for territorial. I've moved this to the uniform and cap badge section to see if the experts can help. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 Thankyou, I can see now, I can't get the photos clearer on here, as they are faded, but looking with a loupe at originals I now see they aren't ox and bucks. I can search again. I think your I'd of Kings Liverpool reg, plus the age means the chap in shorts is Henry Stratford, 1888 Moor Common, Lane End, so that is one sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, forester said: I would love to just find out who is who in these two photos, have identified a third photo, but these are eluding me. The families were based in high wycombe area. I have ww1 records that point to Alfred James Hudson dob 1887, ox and bucks, but nothing defining, as to why he would be in spurs (I am going by Hudson family likeness as well looking at another Hudson ) The chap in shorts looks much like a Stratford, but I am down to between Henry Stratford dob 1887 who was in Kings Liverpool reg. And archie Thomas Stratford, dob 1998, who was ox and bucks, India depot.. Just he looks too old for a photo taken 1916..17..18 Am I correct thinking both cap badges are ox and bucks LI? The three men in the bottom photo are all artillerymen, and all Drivers going by their mounted attire (mounted services greatcoat, breeches, spurs and puttees tied at the ankle).. Not sure what the top cap badge is, yet it's not OBLI. If King's Liverpool, it just might be the 8th Bn - Liverpool Irish; and the should titile T King's or T 8 King's. Cheers, GT. Edited 4 July , 2020 by Grovetown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 What I have for Henry's ww1 record Is Henry Stratford, Liverpool R, pvte, reg no. 6160, 332684, correspondence..moor common, Lane End, bucks.. He was living in Liverpool during the war, but this was where his parents etc lived and he went back there to settle in later years, so must be him.. Or a big coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Michelle Young said: Only one photo showing. Man in shorts. Very hard to make out cap badge, but there's a T above the curved shoulder title. And possibly a harp on the cap badge, or possibly the horse of the Kings Liverpool, but without a clearer image, hard to say. Second photo is of men of the Royal Artillery. Neither of the photos are OBLI. Michelle That was an excellent spot by you Michelle, given the very distorted image of the badge. Your knowledge of insignia is becoming formidable. I concur with the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment ID and so I think forester has found his man. The three artillery drivers, two of whom wear simplified SD jackets, are much clearer. Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 Thankyou so much. Now I can concentrate on identifying this last Royal artillery driver, Do you think this is a photo of the same man, he looks very similar, but looks younger. I was trying to work out the shoulder insignia .. This photo was in an embroidered mount, kept in a frame for many years, so was important, It is quite the detective work Tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 58 minutes ago, forester said: Thankyou so much. Now I can concentrate on identifying this last Royal artillery driver, Do you think this is a photo of the same man, he looks very similar, but looks younger. I was trying to work out the shoulder insignia .. This photo was in an embroidered mount, kept in a frame for many years, so was important, It is quite the detective work Tbh. The man in the picture above looks to be the same man featured in the centre of the group of three artillery men in post #1. He appears to wear a three tier T-R.F.A ?? shoulder title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 Yup, that's what I thought, what is a trfa.. Territorial reserve?... Field artillery, So he could have gone on to be in the royal artillery. At present I am having no luck with the records, but I beleive lots were destroyed. He looks pretty young to have been born in 1887/8, I was thinking he could pass as 28ish in the group picture, he is the middle one.. Is it feasible he joined the trfa before the war, then joined the Royal artillery as a driver when war started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 3 minutes ago, forester said: Yup, that's what I thought, what is a trfa.. Territorial reserve?... Field artillery, Territorial - Royal Field Artillery Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: The man in the picture above looks to be the same man featured in the centre of the group of three artillery men in post #1. He appears to wear a three tier T-R.F.A ?? shoulder title. It means he was an auxiliary, or citizen soldier member of the part-time Territorial Force (TF) that was created in 1908. They wore the T above their unit’s shoulder title. These men attend drill halls close to their homes and they undertook to attend training (drills) twice per week (usually a mid-week evening and a weekend morning) for a few hours. If they attended regularly weekly (there was a minimum number of drills) and annually (there was a training camp under canvas each summer) then they would receive a not inconsiderable cash lump sum. The majority of men were committed only to home defence but from 1910 men who agreed (volunteered) to serve anywhere in the world if called out received a special badge to wear above their right chest pocket. In the event of war parliament voted to mobilise (“embody”) the TF and then all members were obliged to report to their drill halls with full equipment. That is what happened at the outset of WW1. High Wycombe had Drill Halls for the cavalry (Bucks Hussars Yeomanry) and infantry (OBLI), but not artillery. Do you have any other town that the man concerned could have come from? Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 Thankyou, this info is fascinating and enlightening, I will copy and keep with the photo. As it all helps if I come across other info that names people. It's like a jigsaw, with each extra bit helping fit another into place. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 A 33 year old (in Nov 1915) T/2333 Gunner Alfred Hudson of High Wycombe Bucks has a partial record on Findmypast showing his first unit as 3/3 Home Counties (Cinque Ports) Brigade RFA - a Territorial Force brigade (whose shoulder title would resemble that on the pic (Frogsmile may have the exact one!) . Does the age tally? He later went to Salonika Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 My Alfred James Hudson was born 19/1/1887, died 1966 From wycombe Marsh, (chepping wycombe) married to lily May Wright. Seeing the photo of the lad was in such a big frame, with a large cross stitch mount would point to him being in tf while still at home Plus I have found other old photos of men who look very similar, all together in Hudson, Stratford family box someone posted the group pic showed drivers, royal artillery. I am coming up blank with ancestry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 So, having another look through, I found this in my tin of old badges that was with these photos..all connected with this family. Which ties in to the group photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 That is a Royal Artillery cap badge as would be worn by an RFA man.- doesn't help! Alfred Hudson obviously not yours, too old! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 And this.. Which I had no idea what it meant, must be connected to the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, forester said: And this.. Which I had no idea what it meant, must be connected to the photo. His shoulder title was similar to these. It should be 3-rows: T-RFA-HOME.COUNTIES You seem to be just missing the HOME.COUNTIES part. Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 I am going through all the badges, all sorts, berks, ox and bucks, Gloucester, old uniform buttons, but no other curved ones.. Apart from one with AUSTRALIA on it... All mysteries, all may be clues as I find more out.. There's an old card season ticket from uk to Australia via Canada.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, forester said: I am going through all the badges, all sorts, berks, ox and bucks, Gloucester, old uniform buttons, but no other curved ones.. Apart from one with AUSTRALIA on it... All mysteries, all may be clues as I find more out.. There's an old card season ticket from uk to Australia via Canada.. It wouldn’t surprise me if the lower tier stopped being used after a while as they were very impractical and became entangled in equipment and camouflage netting. He might well have ended up using just the T-RFA. In the last two years there was increasing use of woven worsted titles to replace the metal. Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 OK, so I have so many bits, badges etc I looked up the TRFA. As it was mentioned about a badge in an earlier post. I have this, which I just read was for trfa who went abroad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, forester said: OK, so I have so many bits, badges etc I looked up the TRFA. As it was mentioned about a badge in an earlier post. I have this, which I just read was for trfa who went abroad? Yes, that’s the Imperial Service Tablet. From 1910 it was awarded to those who voluntarily agreed to serve abroad if needed. There were never enough such men and that fact contributed to the need to introduce mandatory universal military service (conscription). Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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