Sergeant at home but reverting to Private overseas

[tamiwell]

Hello, 

I have a soldier to research named Francis Richardson (6035) 27th Battalion AIF.  We have a photograph of him wearing sergeant stripes on his sleeve.  His service record seems to indicate that he was a Sergeant in Australia and attended a NCO's school, but then reverted to Private on arrival in the UK.  He also seems to have been possibly a Cpl for a short while but that part of his record is difficult to understand.  Can anyone explain why a man would have to revert to Private on arrival in the UK and the Cpl entry that is difficult to read? 

Thank you : )

[Moonraker]

Common practice for ANZAC troops arriving in Britain from home, as they would be joining troops with more experience. Ira Robinson, in Dear Lizzie, Chrissie Ward editor, (HarperCollins, Auckland 2000) wrote from Sling Camp on May 26, 1917: "I am a Lance Corporal now, as all the NCOs who came from NZ lose at least one of their stripes, but get them back again if they are thought competent."

 

I note that your man got one stripe back six days after reverting to the ranks.

 

[tamiwell]

Hi Moonraker, thank you, that's what I thought too...but then for the remainder of his records he seems to be referred to as a Private again?  Or did I read that incorrectly?

[kenf48]

The Corporal entry is, "To be Acting Corporal (BRO 16) without pay CR9243"  I don't know what BRO 16 refers to, but the entry is struck through as 'Dupes' or duplication.  The entry and the one above are struck through as they are duplicated by the entries above in red ink both lines being dated 10.1.17 and 16.10.17. and the notes identical.

 

His appointment to Sergeant was 'PROV' or provisional, in fact two weeks later he reverted to Corporal (again 'Pro' so provisional).  He embarks on 7.11.17. with two stripes, which he loses on arrival in the UK (as above).  After he has been in the U.K. for a week he is again appointed Acting Corporal on 16.10.1917 (the duplicate entries).  He reverts to Private 'on marching into 2nd Australian Infantry Base Depot at Etaples from England on 6.4.17".

 

In other words although he attended the NCOs School he was never substantively promoted, his appointments were either 'Provisional' or 'Acting' and therefore his rank (for record purposes) remained as private, though at various times in the period on the posted sheet he performed the duties of an NCO.

 

[TullochArd]

I'd offer that "BRO" is Battalion Routine Orders. 

 

BRO's are the Commanding Officer's written direction, published daily (usually when possible and/or practical) and as the name suggests covering routine unit events and occurrences local to his command.  It would be posted outside Battalion Headquarters and all members of the Battalion would be expected to read and comply with the direction.  

 

The granting of rank, albeit without pay in this case, once published on BROs supports the individual in the execution of his duties with the full authority of the Commanding Officer. 

 

I reckon the "Prov" and "Pro" probably refer  to the unit internal appointment of Provost Sergeant and Provost Corporal.

 

 

Edited 2 July , 2020 by TullochArd

[kenf48]

28 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

 

I reckon the "Prov" and "Pro" probably refer  to the unit internal appointment of Provost Sergeant and Provost Corporal.

 

Thank you , you're probably right.

 

 

[Fromelles]

Prov and Pro are both most definitely abbreviations of Provisional

 

The need to maintain the chain of command would require individuals of the reinforcement, that showed potential, to be temporarily promoted. Recording as not having any previous military service, Pte Richardson's age (33) and maturity must have stood him out. 

 

These temporary promotions sometimes lasted only for the duration of the voyage, but could continue till finally being taken on strength (TOS) of the Unit (as in Pte Richardson's case), whereby they'd revert back to Pte as the Unit (which has a set number of L/Cpl, Cpl, Sgt etc allotted to its establishment) would have men more deserving of promotion.

 

My reading of Pte Richardson's service record is as follows -

 

27 Mar 16 - Pte - Enlisted and allocated: 'E' Coy, 2nd Depot Bn (moved between numerous reinforcements, depots and schools)

01 Oct 16 - Sgt (Provisional) - 'A' Coy, Base Infantry Depot

16 Oct 16 - Cpl (Provisional) - 17/27th Bn

10 Jan 17 - Pte - Reverts to Ranks: 7th Tng Bn, Rollestone

16 Jan 17 - Extra Duties Pay (EDP) Cpl - 7th Tng Bn, Rollestone

06 Apr 17 - Pte - Reverted on March In: 2nd ADBD, Etapels

 

Pte Richardson was TOS of the 27th Bn on 09 Apr 17 and a Pte he remained till discharging on 24 Apr 19.

 

I had a great uncle who served in 'C' Coy, 27th Bn (ex 1st Reinforcement).

 

Regards,

 

Dan

Edited 15 July , 2020 by Fromelles

[JulianB]

There is also the question of pension levels !

I believe that pilots in the 2nd WW dropped a rank whilst up in the air

[TullochArd]

Fromelles is right that "Prov and Pro are both most definitely abbreviations of Provisional".  

 

There's a similar Australian GWF story at the link (below) summarised as:  "soldier at Codford in July 1917"..... "end of his training, he became a sergeant (provisional)" ......."and on the way to Europe" he was a Ships' Orderly Sergeant and a V.O. Sergeant" ........"On arrival in England, he reverted to private" 

 

"V.O." is Voyage Only.  Totally coincidental is a Ship's Orderly Sergeant was primarily a disciplinarian appointment not too dissimilar to that of Provost Sergeant.  Fromelle's observation "Richardson's age (33) and maturity must have stood him out." is likely very relevant. 

 

 

 

Edited 15 July , 2020 by TullochArd