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dickaren

Unknown Royal Irish Rifles AIF Burial Ground

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dickaren

There is an unknown British soldier Royal Irish Rifles buried in plot 11 row A grave 4 in AIF Burial Ground Cemetery. The COG report (attached) shows that the remains were recovered at map reference 57d Q24 d.8.8 and that there was a gold football medal engraved R.McKibbin" with the remains (there was also a spoon marked J.B). There is only one R.McKibbin RIR without a known grave and he is 2314 Rifleman Robert McKibbin A company 13th RIR killed on 1st July 1916 and commemorated on Thiepval Memorial. The Battalion war diary gives a full list of all casualties for the 1st July and he is listed amongst the missing. The 13th RIR attacked the German trenches in the area where the remains were recovered at 57d Q24 d.8.8.

The question is, would the CWGC accept the football medal as proof of identity? There is an identification of 2nd Lt.N.S.Hatch 13th RIR by an engraved cigarette case plot 10 row A grave 1 in the same cemetery (COG report attached).

 

 

 

AIF COG R.Mckibbin.JPG

AIF COG 1.JPG

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thetrenchrat22

I would say no, as if they thought it was not Robert McKibbin then, it is unlikely that would accepted it now. 

 

As with the spoon any 13th RIR with the initials JB

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dickaren

I was thinking along those lines.

Richard

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Tom Tulloch-Marshall
5 hours ago, dickaren said:

… there was a gold football medal engraved R.McKibbin" with the remains (there was also a spoon marked J.B).

 

Essentially, that is your "problem" here - two contradictory pieces of evidence for the same body. My friend JP and I have had three years of banging our heads against the CWGC / MoD brick walls with the Bertie Jeffs - Ernest Haxton RFC case … which has now, FINALLY, been accepted - so the first advice is - prepare for a battle. If you can put up a good solid case for McKibbin having been exhumed from the correct location, then go for DISPROVING any chance of a RI Rifles man with initials "JB" having ever been buried anywhere near your map ref.

 

Don't fall for the old chestnut that the IWGC knew best - they clearly didn't. They had post WW1 technology and record-keeping methods and were overloaded with thousands and thousands and thousands of "unknown" cases. Don't let CWGC bully you into believing otherwise. - Disprove "JB" - that's the key - disprove "JB" and then hammer your case home on the McKibbin evidence. Be forewarned that you may have to deal with people with severe deficiencies of wit and common sense. Persevere.

Tom

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dickaren
On ‎30‎/‎06‎/‎2020 at 21:36, Tom Tulloch-Marshall said:

 

Essentially, that is your "problem" here - two contradictory pieces of evidence for the same body. My friend JP and I have had three years of banging our heads against the CWGC / MoD brick walls with the Bertie Jeffs - Ernest Haxton RFC case … which has now, FINALLY, been accepted - so the first advice is - prepare for a battle. If you can put up a good solid case for McKibbin having been exhumed from the correct location, then go for DISPROVING any chance of a RI Rifles man with initials "JB" having ever been buried anywhere near your map ref.

 

Don't fall for the old chestnut that the IWGC knew best - they clearly didn't. They had post WW1 technology and record-keeping methods and were overloaded with thousands and thousands and thousands of "unknown" cases. Don't let CWGC bully you into believing otherwise. - Disprove "JB" - that's the key - disprove "JB" and then hammer your case home on the McKibbin evidence. Be forewarned that you may have to deal with people with severe deficiencies of wit and common sense. Persevere.

Tom

 

Unfortunately it is not possible to disprove JB as there is more than one candidate in the 13th Bn alone. More likely that the spoon was borrowed than the football medal but CWGC would not accept that so will have to leave this case.

Richard

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