Women on or around Salisbury Plain

[FROGSMILE]

The British military still use the term Institute, although it’s often hidden in an acronym.  The I in NAAFI and in PRI refers to Institute and the latter, President of the Regimental Institute used to relate to the shop run by every infantry battalion and probably cavalry and artillery regiment too.  It’s where such things as stable belts, and other non publicly funded paraphernalia were purchased and the profits from sales were used to pay for soldiers social functions, called ‘smokers’, in the Victorian fashion.  Unlike the officers’ and Sergeants’ messes, the rank and file were not obliged by King’s/Queen’s Regulations to pay mandatory subscriptions, but instead ‘voluntary’ payments (enforced by company sergeant majors) were collected on each pay day.  I recall this very strongly, but I don’t think it still exists today as the European Human Rights Act led to some challenges against several  traditions of antiquity through fears of bad publicity and even litigation.  Anyway, the relevance is that Institute is a term writ large in British military life, but in a way that would not be easily related to in civilian life.

Edited 16 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[squirrel]

"Barrack damages" was another way of ensuring that squaddies contributed to the Sergeant's beer fund.

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, squirrel said:

"Barrack damages" was another way of ensuring that squaddies contributed to the Sergeant's beer fund.

Yes indeed.  Barrack Damages was collected at the same time (pay day) as the ‘voluntary’ PRI subscription, but in fairness (despite the jokes) it did not pay for Sergeants beer.  It was actually maintained by the battalion quartermaster who was obliged to pay for any barracks damages reported during the routine inspections during COs rounds.  In theory there was supposed to be an investigation with the culprit having the cost deducted from pay, but it had been learned that finding out ‘who’ committed damage was extremely difficult and also likely to empty an individual’s pay account, so it became practice to collect a flat rate from everyone.  The sum collected was used to pay for the routine damages and the residue that built up was used to offset the ‘free beer’ with Christmas lunch, and the ‘regimental days’ in each battalion’s calendar year. These practices of internal economy (as they were called) went back as far as the Victorian era.
 

Post Script: sincere apologies for the diversion that this thread has taken.

Edited 16 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[squirrel]

Perhaps I am a little cynical having paid for a cigarette burn on my locker that had been there since WW2 or earlier by the look of it.

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, squirrel said:

Perhaps I am a little cynical having paid for a cigarette burn on my locker that had been there since WW2 or earlier by the look of it.

Yes, there was no guarantee as to when a damage might be identified, but in good battalions they were recorded in the ‘barracks damages book’ precisely so that such damage was not paid for more than once.  I can vouch that it was always scrupulously above board in RWF, I never once saw or experienced anything untoward.

Edited 16 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[HazelMac]

Thanks Moonraker for the link to the Canadian records. I was able to find the person who is possibly my grandfather and it confirms what was found previously. He joined the Canadian Expeditionary Forces in Calgary, Alberta in June 1915 was in England by November of that year and in France in February 1916. His regiment was on Salisbury Plain at the time I am specifically interested but what I can establish is whether my grandmother was also there at that time.

[Moonraker]

Glad that helped, Hazel. But I'm surprised that a Canadian"regiment" - or any other substantial unit - was on Salisbury Plain between November 1915 and  February 1916. I suspect that when you say "regiment" you mean "battalion". Did your grandfather's record show which camp he was in? His unit's war diary may be

 

here

 

though "Collection search" was on the blink when I checked.

 

If you don't want to give his unit's name in public here, perhaps you could send me a private message, please? But if you were to give us all the names of the unit and camp, it might just strike a chord with someone and I or another member might just have a photo or details of institutes in his camp or be able to indicate which villages and towns your grandfather might have frequented.

 

 

[HazelMac]

Hi Moonraker,

Yes, sorry, regiment was the wrong word to use. His records say he was a driver and his unit was 1st Army Corps Troop. It does not reveal at which camp he was based.  I must emphasize though that I don't know if he was my grandfather. He is a relative of someone with whom I have a DNA match.  He is certainly a strong candidate because he was reputedly on Salisbury Plain at the time my grandmother became pregnant. I know she worked there during the war but what I can't establish is exactly when and where. Thanks for your help so far. It has been very enlightening.

[Moonraker]

Interesting. Compared with battalions of 800 men or so, the Number One, Army Troops Company would have been relatively small in numbers and, comprising engineers, possibly was deployed to Salisbury Plain to help build the considerable extra infrastructure of new camps, roads etc.

 

See here for a couple of extra details.

 

Sadly its war diary has not been digitalised.

 

I'll post a query on the Canadian Expeditionary Force Study Group to see if anyone there knows anything more about the Company.

 

Moonraker

[HazelMac]

Thanks Moonraker for the interesting link.  Thanks too for posting a query on the Canadian Expeditionary Force Study Group Forum. I now know quite a bit about the man I suspect is my grandfather. If I could establish that my grandmother was working on Salisbury Plain when she became pregnant with my mother, around Christmas 1915, it would add considerable weight to him being the one. As I have said previously I was told that she worked on or around Salisbury Plain 'feeding the troop' sometime during WW1 but I can't find exactly when.  Thank you for your continued help.

Edited 20 July , 2020 by HazelMac

[Moonraker]

My query  on the CEFSG elicited this reponse: "If you have access to The History of the Corps of Royal Canadian Engineers - Volume 1, by Kerry & McDill, there is some information on page 81, although pages 78 - 84 may [be] relevant to the overall situation in England".

 

Sadly the text does not seem available on line (as an ebook, for example), though Googling does take one to tantalising glimpses of five lines or so that include the words "Salisbury Plain". One such glimpse relates to the unit's arrival in England, the other is a passing reference. I strongly suspect that the full text would do nothing to help Hazel.

[HazelMac]

Hi Moonraker

Thanks for this suggestion. I have seen the "Salisbury Plain" references you mention and I have tried googling other topics in the book. Like you, I suspect having access to full text won't help either.  I will explore some other avenues of research both for the Canadian soldier and my grandmother. I am very grateful for all your efforts on my behalf.