1905 SD Cap

[mark holden]

This 1905 SD cap was not well described on or photographed on eBay. Vendor supplied some additional information that attributed the cap to W J Lemon 2RMF KiA 10 Nov 17. Sadly nothing to confirm this inside the cap. 

Mark 

 

[Pete_C]

Wow, text-book example of - in my experience - one of the hardest items of SD uniform to find. They're certainly rarer than SD jackets. I'm not sure why that should be so as 23.5 million service dress caps were manufactured up to March 1919! Whatever the reason, this is fabulous example - thanks for sharing it Mark.

 

Pete

[FROGSMILE]

It seems like a cracking example to me Mark, thank you for posting it.  The peak design was very smart and it’s interesting that the current issue has returned to that same form and has been for some time now, although contemporary soldiers tend to slash it unnecessarily.  Ironically there’s rather a lot of females wearing it in the ‘King’s (Girl’s) Troop’ RHA.

 

Edited 28 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Grovetown]

3 hours ago, Pete_C said:

 23.5 million service dress caps were manufactured up to March 1919!

 

FWIW, in the draft of Joe's book, he gives a figure of 25.5m.

 

He also says that, because the nomenclature stayed as Cap, Service Dress throughout, this number probably covers the 1905 stiff, the Gor Blimey and subsequent soft caps, both serge and gaberdine.

 

 

5 hours ago, mark holden said:

This 1905 SD cap was not well described on or photographed on eBay. Vendor supplied some additional information that attributed the cap to W J Lemon 2RMF KiA 10 Nov 17. Sadly nothing to confirm this inside the cap. 

Mark 

 

 

Good spot Mark.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

 

 

Edited 28 June , 2020 by Grovetown

[mark holden]

Sometimes it pays to be an eBay vulture. Thanks GT.

[Jerry B]

great spot mark, well done

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Grovetown said:

 

FWIW, in the draft of Joe's book, he gives a figure of 25.5m.

 

He also says that, because the nomenclature stayed as Cap, Service Dress throughout, this number probably covers the 1905 stiff, the Gor Blimey and subsequent soft caps, both serge and gaberdine.

 

 

 

Good spot Mark.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

 

 

Did Joe ever publish his draft, do you know?

[Grovetown]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Did Joe ever publish his draft, do you know?

 

No. Died before having a chance. He sent a few of us drafts for review (and, I'm sure he won't mind us saying, adjusting some of the American English). 

 

That said, his series of articles in Militaria magazine do a similar job, if not quite in as much detail. Trouble is: they're in French, and I wish Histoire & Collections would publish an English language compilation.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

[FROGSMILE]

17 minutes ago, Grovetown said:

 

No. Died before having a chance. He sent a few of us drafts for review (and, I'm sure he won't mind us saying, adjusting some of the American English). 

 

That said, his series of articles in Militaria magazine do a similar job, if not quite in as much detail. Trouble is: they're in French, and I wish Histoire & Collections would publish an English language compilation.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

Thank you.  Yes, that’s a great pity.  Perhaps someone Anglo/French bilingual (Canadian) might translate them for the forum one day.

[mark holden]

I would commend Joe’s articles in Militaria magazine even in French they show all of Joe’s forensic attention to detail. A moderately good French/English dictionary will get most of us through the salient points. I suspect that H&C will not invest the effort in an English translation even though It would be well received. H&C released a book on the Tommy 1914-1918 about 18 months ago by Laurence Brown and Faris Siwadi both English I asked Faris if an English language book was planned and he was unsure.Nothing has changed in the intervening period.

[Grovetown]

2 hours ago, mark holden said:

I would commend Joe’s articles in Militaria magazine even in French they show all of Joe’s forensic attention to detail. A moderately good French/English dictionary will get most of us through the salient points. I suspect that H&C will not invest the effort in an English translation even though It would be well received. H&C released a book on the Tommy 1914-1918 about 18 months ago by Laurence Brown and Faris Siwadi both English I asked Faris if an English language book was planned and he was unsure.Nothing has changed in the intervening period.

Something of a mystery to me that the French seem way better served than we are for WW1 (uniform and equipment) references - whether Militaria magazine or older, handy reckoners like Gazette des Uniformes's Le Fantassin de la Grande Guerre (1995) etc etc.

 

It was very disappointing when the English edition of Militaria ceased after 24 issues (and I was lucky to have bought them all by the time it was finished).

 

H&C must know there's a UK market for this stuff from the publication of World War I Infantry in Colour Photographs in 1990 (nice 'quick' guide at the time) and its reprinting as World War One Soldiers 1914-18 in 2013.

 

With respect to Lawrence, I'm happy enough with Campaign - especially now 1916 is properly underway (it helps that mine have been free). Chris told me last week that he reckons it'll be finished Aug/ Sept and so, once Dan and Ollie have finished fiddling about, out for Christmas. 1917 and 1918 will be quicker, as more is in the can.

 

Those, with Bodsworth and Krithia's marvellous epic Period Photographs (which'll cost you over 100 quid now); backed up by nicher stuff like Grumpy's, Churchill's collars, K&K and so on; are great.

 

Yet that no-one did Joe is a tragedy though, as most everyone else is standing on his shoulders.

 

Cheers,

 

GT

 

 

[mark holden]

GT,

 

I am lucky enough to have most of the above mentioned in my library and all of Joe's Militaria Magazine articles which I have to say are invaluable. Not knowing what Chris has planned in Campaign 16 (Can't wait) and 17 and 18 the Brown Siwadi book has some useful (to me) items I have not seen illustrated elsewhere. It was on the strength of their book that I snaffled my Bombers Bucket  from Dear Old Blighty.

 

Regards

 

Mark   

[Grovetown]

44 minutes ago, mark holden said:

It was on the strength of their book that I snaffled my Bombers Bucket  from Dear Old Blighty.

 

Nothing beats one of those "I know what that is..." moments.

[trooper23]

I suspect someone has 'photoshopped' the horse portrait here!!

[MarkP]

Very nice example Mark and thanks for the info. The search for an original 1905 SD cap at an avoidable price goes on!

Cheers

[gnr.ktrha]

Frogsmile, 
                This style of cap is issued with a slashed peak, or at least the case in the 1990's. To pull the peak in closer to the forehead we would tie a lace to the inside sweat band either side of where the cap badge sites and this drew the sides in which resulted in a steeper angle to the peak. We also had the saddler make up a new chin strap and replaced it for the issued one. The new chin strap did not function, but could be bulled up and the brass work polished. A few of the lads had caps dated from the 1950's and these were easy to spot as the peak sat out from the head and looked more like the ones seen worn by some units during early WW2. These were never very popular and those issued them would try and get a replacement issue as soon as possible.
          The only cap we did slash the peaks on were the coloured ones worn with No. 2 Dress. 

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, gnr.ktrha said:

Frogsmile, 
                This style of cap is issued with a slashed peak, or at least the case in the 1990's. To pull the peak in closer to the forehead we would tie a lace to the inside sweat band either side of where the cap badge sites and this drew the sides in which resulted in a steeper angle to the peak. We also had the saddler make up a new chin strap and replaced it for the issued one. The new chin strap did not function, but could be bulled up and the brass work polished. A few of the lads had caps dated from the 1950's and these were easy to spot as the peak sat out from the head and looked more like the ones seen worn by some units during early WW2. These were never very popular and those issued them would try and get a replacement issue as soon as possible.
          The only cap we did slash the peaks on were the coloured ones worn with No. 2 Dress. 

Yes, I recall the King’s Troop Arrangement very well.  Up until the late 1970s it was worn by other corps without all that degree of setting up, including the Household Cavalry, Royal Corps of Military Police and the Small Arms School Corps.  Of course they weren’t identical to the 1905 cap, but they did have a very similar appearance due to the shorter peak than was used on the 1921/22 variant used until WW2.

Edited 16 January by FROGSMILE