Lieutenant Barker, Ardennes, France, 1918 (photo)

[Hugo1914]

Hello,

 

This photo of Lieutenant BARKER was taken in November 1918, "a few days after the Armistice", in Grandpré, Ardennes. "We did not receive our food, so we had to hunt and fish. I just killed a big rabbit found by this boche dog that we called "Hindenburg"", Barker wrote in French on the back of this photo that he sent to my great-grandfather.

 

Could you please help me find out more about this Barker? 

 

Thank you,

 

[HTSCF Fareham]

A bit of a photo clean up.

 

[George Rayner]

Sorry no ideas on Barker at the moment-but it looks very much like a hare to me

 

George

[Hugo1914]

Indeed, you're right, it is a hare. However, Barker on the back of the photo talks about a "gros lapin" (big rabbit). So we're looking for a lieutenant Barker who did not know the difference between a rabbit and a hare (or the word "lièvre" in French). That does not help much, but it is a first clue!

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Hugo1914 said:

photo of Lieutenant BARKER

I had to read twice - I thought it was of the dog!

;-) M

 

P.S. - Welcome to GWF - please excuse the 'levity' but in the absence of anything more sensible and going lockdown stir-crazy. 

We do try to also give better answers too.

:-) M

Edited 23 June , 2020 by Matlock1418
P.S

[HTSCF Fareham]

2 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

I had to read twice - I thought it was of the dog!

;-) M

I think that we are splitting "hairs".

[Matlock1418]

 

1 minute ago, HTSCF Fareham said:

I think that we are splitting "hairs".

;-) :-)

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Hugo1914 said:

photo of Lieutenant BARKER was taken in November 1918, "a few days after the Armistice", in Grandpré, Ardennes.

• Do you have any more info on Lt Barker?

Looking at uniform and headdress to my unskilled eye = American?

Someone much more knowledgeable will probably come along very soon but any other snippets you can share are likely to help.

:-) M

[sr97]

19 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

• Looking at uniform and headdress to my unskilled eye = American?

 

 

Cap appears to match US army officers overseas garrison cap with an officers rank? One currently for sale on Ebay.

[HTSCF Fareham]

What links are there between your great-grandfather and this chap? How did he know him?

[helpjpl]

 

Lt Barker's cap and badge looks similar to that of Lt Ralph E Estep:

https://shootingthegreatwar.blogspot.com/2015/11/lest-we-forget-final-pictures-of-lt.html

 

JP

[Hugo1914]

47 minutes ago, HTSCF Fareham said:

What links are there between your great-grandfather and this chap? How did he know him?

 

No idea. My great-grandfather was a French soldier during WWI. I assume they met during the war. There's no trace of a Barker in his letters before or after the war. I found this photo in the family archives, among others. Barker sent it to my great-grandfather. That's the only photo of this Barker and there's no photo of any other US soldier. 

[BullerTurner]

3 hours ago, George Rayner said:

Sorry no ideas on Barker at the moment-but it looks very much like a hare to me

 

George

I agree.  My own exact thought!

[JOVE23]

So now that we've got the hare identified maybe we can ID the dog!

 

On a more serious note, it definitely looks like an American officer cap, I'll ask some of my fellow Yanks to have a look at this fellow.

[Matlock1418]

18 minutes ago, JOVE23 said:

So now that we've got the hare identified maybe we can ID the dog!

The Kennel Club won't accept him for Crufts, except for "Scrufts" - looks like a cross-breed perhaps with some terrier in him, though more likely considered a 'lurcher' if he actually got the hare himself [rather than one which was just flushed and then shot by our elusive Lt].

Good start that we have the dog's name = "Hindenburg" - if only we could find his number and service record. ;-)

 

6 hours ago, Hugo1914 said:

November 1918, "a few days after the Armistice", in Grandpré, Ardennes

Joking aside, it is useful that you have a date and a location for the Lt - what we now need is a GWF pal with knowledge of US forces at that time/place to come along - I wouldn't be at all surprised when they turn up - so don't give up hope, GWF really is a great place for serious answers too.

:-) M

[charlie962]

Is that a shirt collar turned down over his tunic collar ?

 

Is there a trace of insignia just below?

 

His cap has piping.

Edited 23 June , 2020 by charlie962

[FROGSMILE]

It’s a typical US Army officer’s uniform with so-called ‘garrison cap’ and the badge of rank of a lieutenant.  I’m unable to say if a 1st or 2nd lieutenant as both ranks wore a single bar on cap and shoulder straps, the junior in yellow metal and the senior in silver.  He seems to be holding a service issue Springfield rifle, as far as I can determine.  He also appears to be unshaven and, what with a cigarette between his lips, most un-officer like.  His folded down collar unfortunately obscures the insignia that normally indicates arm of service and sometimes unit.

 

Although the enclosed table predominantly relates to WW2 it shows that the old corps of cavalry, artillery and infantry had been using them since much earlier.

“Overseas Caps were issued to the American Expeditionary Force in Europe 1917-19. Both U.S. manufactured OS caps and caps "borrowed" from the British and French were worn by soldiers of the AEF. Enlisted soldiers OS caps were not provided with any branch color piping like the later garrison caps were.  However,  officer OS caps were provided with branch of service piping similar to the enlisted garrison caps, which has led to some confusion when attempting to identify the period of use of individual caps. Garrison caps are often incorrectly referred to as overseas caps.”  https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/254296-ae-f-‘trench’-overseas-caps/

 

It’s interesting to note that in the colourised photo below the lieutenants do not appear to have piped caps, but the captain (two-bars) does.

 

 

Edited 23 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[JOVE23]

Can we get some more info on the grandfather, where he was living at the time?

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

He also appears to be unshaven and, what with a cigarette between his lips, most un-officer like

Another for "Scrufts"?

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s interesting to note that in the colourised photo below the lieutenants do not appear to have piped caps, but the captain (two-bars) does.

Having previously been 'burnt' by b/w orthochromic photos' unusual rendition of colours and subsequent colourisation [or is that colors & colorisation? ;-0] - I think I can perhaps see all officers' caps have piping, though the captain's does seem most prominent.  As for colour(s) = ???

:-) M

[helpjpl]

1.  November 20-24 1918 the 152nd Field Artillery Brig and 302nd Am Tn move to the vicinity of Grand-pre.

Page 196:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ilmmi-MmkXIC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=42nd+Division,+Grandpre,+WW1&source=bl&ots=GuTXICG0hr&sig=ACfU3U1CX_HtseDmOdYAEOBHTuIrs1OuQw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiK1oHSz5fqAhVNaRUIHetXDioQ6AEwCnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

2.  The 152nd Artillery Brigade and 302nd Ammunition Train were part of the 77th Division.

Pages 5 and 6:

http://www.314th.org/books/US-Army-V-Corps-Meuse-Argonne-Operation-Sept-21-1918-to-November-11-1918.pdf

 

JP

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

50 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Another for "Scrufts"?

Having previously been 'burnt' by b/w orthochromic photos' unusual rendition of colours and subsequent colourisation [or is that colors & colorisation? ;-0] - I think I can perhaps see all officers' caps have piping, though the captain's does seem most prominent.  As for colour(s) = ???

:-) M

 

Yes, I think you're very probably right about the piping.  Certainly the historical research states that on the WW1 garrison cap the officers had piping, and the enlisted men did not, but that in WW2 all ranks had piping.

[Steven Broomfield]

3 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

The Kennel Club won't accept him for Crufts, except for "Scrufts" - looks like a cross-breed perhaps with some terrier in him, though more likely considered a 'lurcher' if he actually got the hare himself [rather than one which was just flushed and then shot by our elusive Lt].

 

 

Have to remember that dog breeds have changed an awful lot in the past century and a bit; I was reading something recently in the 11th Hussars Gazette from the 1930's, about Miniature Schnauzers (the CO's wife bred them), and the photos showed dogs which looked nothing like our current selection.

 

I wonder if the dog might be some variety of German Pointer.

 

But I fear we digress. Hare today ... gone tomorrow.

[JOVE23]

One of the AEF Researchers in the Facebook group says:

 

"If I were the OP I'd start by combing the 77th & 78th [Division] US AEF records out there for him.

 As they were in the area at that time & are pretty well documented.
  It definitely looks like a US Army uniform."

Edited 23 June , 2020 by JOVE23

[Hugo1914]

Thank you all for your replies regarding the hare, the dog, and the soldier.

 

On the latter, according to The Official History of the 315th Infantry 1917-1919, there was a lieutenant George S. Barker in the area at that time, Battalion intelligence officer.

[FROGSMILE]

That seems likely to be him given that an educated man with linguistic skills is typical of those utilised as intelligence officers.