Fattyowls Posted 20 June , 2020 Share Posted 20 June , 2020 Samuel Coulter served as a L.Corporal No.12/3768 in the 12th Battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles. He was killed in the attack on Whytshaete on 7th June 1917 and is buried in Spanbroekmolen Military Cemetery. I have spent a frustrating 24 hours trying to find the war diary for the 12th for that period but without success. This isn't my debut at not being able to find stuff on Ancestry I admit so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but could anyone who knows their way around this nook or cranny of my least favourite genealogical website identify the diaries. I've tried going into TNA and finding the reference but all I seem to get on Ancestry are diaries from 1919 when the battalion were in Germany. I've found the medal index card, the two medal rolls and his Soldiers effects entry. I have also found the SDGW entry which interestingly says he was 11th RIR while everything else says 12th, but the war diaries elude me. Since he arrived in France on 4th October 1915 I assume his service would have included the Somme and I'd be grateful if anyone can think of other sources, like unit histories for example that might help me piece together his story. Thanks in anticipation, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 20 June , 2020 Share Posted 20 June , 2020 (edited) Hi Pete, At the National Archives the 12 Bn diary is here, and the 11 Bn is here. On Ancestry the 12 Bn diary for June 1917 starts here, and the 11 Bn here. Regards Chris Edited 20 June , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 June , 2020 Share Posted 20 June , 2020 The Pension Card on Fold3 gives names and dob of widow and their 5 children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 June , 2020 Share Posted 20 June , 2020 There does not seem to be anything other than the brief mention of death in local press, eg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 20 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2020 Thanks gentlemen. Chris, I am at least heartened that I had the correct TNA reference for the 12th and signing up for their free offer is my fall back position. I'd like to know where the diary is on Ancestry to work out what I have been doing wrong. I think of Ancestry like one of those little yappy dogs* - it senses fear and attacks. Corisande - that's helpful, I can check if I can get at Fold3 with that. I have the 1911 census that had four little'uns, with Jack just 4 months at that point. Pete. * if either of you own a yappy but much loved little dog it's just a metaphor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 June , 2020 Share Posted 20 June , 2020 You probably have this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 20 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2020 Au contraire mon ami; that is an excellent find, thank you. There are images of his son Jack on the electrical interweb given he was a full international footballer; this is my favourite from belfastceltic.org. The haircut is epic, it looks like a shoebrush but it is the sheen of the Brylcreem...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 20 June , 2020 Share Posted 20 June , 2020 (edited) Hi Pete, I've edited my post above to add a direct link to the diary on Ancestry. in this case if you wanted to find it yourself, I took the mid bit of the TNA reference (i.e. 2506), and used it as an 'exact' term in the Ancestry search page. That gives 'hits' that show that they have bundled it under 'Various (Infantry Brigades, 36th Division)'. It's then just a question of going to one of the hits, and scrolling to find what you're after. 37 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: I am at least heartened that I had the correct TNA reference for the 12th and signing up for their free offer is my fall back position. Signing up takes less than a minute (and is also free) - the form is here. Once submitted you get 'instantly' registered. Then using their war diary search page (link), you can download date chunks of diaries, or in some cases the complete diary itself. All far easier than finding it on Ancestry, and then having to download a page at a time. Regards Chris Edited 20 June , 2020 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 20 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2020 44 minutes ago, clk said: Chris That's brilliant Chris - it's exactly what I wanted, it's also an excellent explanation of why I should go for TNA registration AND I haven't missed something blindingly obvious on Ancestry. A win, win (win) situation. And you aren't miffed at the small yappy dog metaphor (although it might be a simile, my grammar knowledge is rubbish). What is more thanks to Corisande I have answers to questions I didn't even think to ask. Result. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 20 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2020 2 hours ago, corisande said: You probably have this Corisande, first up thanks for all your help and second have you got the source? I like to save images with the attribution information. Pete, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 June , 2020 Share Posted 20 June , 2020 3 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: second have you got the source? I like to save images with the attribution information. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/160190951/person/292095151068/facts The tree owner is a direct descendent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 20 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2020 43 minutes ago, corisande said: The tree owner is a direct descendent My friend Rob is in contact with part of the family in Canada; I'll check that out. Very much appreciated. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 October , 2020 Share Posted 28 October , 2020 On 20/06/2020 at 18:29, Fattyowls said: Samuel Coulter served as a L.Corporal No.12/3768 in the 12th Battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles. He was killed in the attack on Whytshaete on 7th June 1917 and is buried in Spanbroekmolen Military Cemetery. I have spent a frustrating 24 hours trying to find the war diary for the 12th for that period but without success. This isn't my debut at not being able to find stuff on Ancestry I admit so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but could anyone who knows their way around this nook or cranny of my least favourite genealogical website identify the diaries. I've tried going into TNA and finding the reference but all I seem to get on Ancestry are diaries from 1919 when the battalion were in Germany. I've found the medal index card, the two medal rolls and his Soldiers effects entry. I have also found the SDGW entry which interestingly says he was 11th RIR while everything else says 12th, but the war diaries elude me. Since he arrived in France on 4th October 1915 I assume his service would have included the Somme and I'd be grateful if anyone can think of other sources, like unit histories for example that might help me piece together his story. Thanks in anticipation, Pete. Hi Pete Cpl Samuel Coulter was my great great Grandfather and my father has alot of information. I came across this thread by chance and glad I did. I've been talking to my dad this morning and he would like to get in touch with you if you'd like to, for more information. He is wondering what the connection is! The mystery of the 11th and 12th battalion has been solved. Through his service with the Ulster Volunteer Force and USSF, he had Knowledge of weapons and was posted to the 11th RIR as a Lewis Gun Instructor and Lance corporal before returning to the 12th RIR. He was at the Somme with the 12th battalion. According to the 12th war diaries, they took the Shwaben redout along with the 9th. I hope you get back in touch! Take care Zara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 28 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, ZaraCoulter said: I hope you get back in touch! Hi Zara It was a really nice surprise to read your post; it made my day. I have no family connection other than my old dad telling me that the best game of football he ever saw was Everton's 6-4 victory over Sunderland in the 1934 FA Cup in which Jack Coulter starred. My good friend Rob Sawyer, who I believe you are now in contact with is the other connection; I am researching Samuel's war service in conjunction with Rob initiated by his contacts with your relatives in Canada. Your post adds a lot to my knowledge, especially about the epic attack on the Schwaben Redoubt at Thiepval on 1st July 1916. I'd thought it possible that he would be involved; it is an area that I know really well but have never had a personal connection with. I am also very familiar with the Messines ridge where Samuel fell and is buried, so familiar that when Rob asked me for a paragraph on Samuel's involvement I found that I couldn't stop myself writing four pages (and rising). I can't do a summary where Messines is concerned. I have some excellent photographs (and some I took myself which aren't) if you and your dad are interested. Lovely to make your acquaintance, Best wishes, Pete. Edited 29 October , 2020 by Fattyowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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