Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

WolvercoteWW1

Casualty Clearing Stations & Evacuation

Recommended Posts

WolvercoteWW1

I am helping a friend research his grandpa, wounded in an action near Attilly and Hill 135, France (near St Quentin). The action was 10th Sept 1918 but he was recorded wounded on 11th Sept, so possibly as his unit was being relieved by 96th Inf Brigade around midnight. He was Pte Kenneth Campbell Newby s/n 278390 10th Btn Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders - a Lewis Gunner. Sadly we don't yet have a WW1 era photo of him to post.

The currently free access Kew NA War Diaries have been fascinating to plot the action, but I'm seeking help with more information on how I could identify (a) which Casualty Clearing Station he may have been treated in (Proyart 5th or 41st CCS or La Chapelette nr Peronne 53rd CCS seem likely candidates. Brie 48th CCS nearest to battle area but set up too late), (b) which Ambulance Train he may have been evacuated in (eg 53 CCS AT19 on 15th Sept, 5&41 CCS AT30 on 12th or AT22 on 15th Sept) and (c) the type of "light" train that may have been used (see map photo) to transport wounded from the Proyart CCS down the light rail line to the main line to the south - would it have been an ambulance train on the "light" track or something smaller? Many thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEW

While the diaries are available I'd get hold of WO 95/2378/6 which is the ADMS diary for 32nd Division 1/4/18-30/9/18.

Hopefully in the Sept appendices there will be the typed up 'Medical Arrangements'.

There could be a few, find the most recent one for relevance to 10th/11th Sept. If there isn't such a thing, work back from the end of August. You may have to gauge if the one you find is still relevant.

 

Without seeing the diary I can't say how many of your questions it'll answer.

 

Read the handwritten part as well, sometimes the plans don't work out!

 

There would have been a structured evacuation process, so the route, method and CCS destination were all laid down, sometimes with variations down to injury type or left/right sectors depending on topology.

 

Not seeing the Map Photo but light trains tended to be Decauvillle type. Sometimes they may use a light railway line but actually push trolleys along by hand.

 

CCSs tended to work in groups and rotate the intake, no idea of the details for those mentioned. Athough you may find the location you may not find the actual CCS, unless there's only one!

 

The CCS diary or another in it's group may ID the ambulance train that evacuated away from CCS, although there may be more than one each day.

 

See how you get on and get back with what you find.

TEW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEW

I had a look at 32/ADMS and there's not a lot of info. Looking at 9 Corps DDMS I think you're right with 5 or 41 CCSs at Proyart.

 

If the man was wounded midnight 10th/11th and arrived at CCS later on the 11th he could have been evacuated the same day.

 

5 CCS diary has an odd entry for 11th; AT 22 loaded 14.45 and departed 19.30. Then in their daily tally Evacuated - nil.

12th, AT 30 departed 19.30.

 

41 CCS has AT 22 evacuating on the 10th, none on 11th, AT 30 on the 12th

 

TEW

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WolvercoteWW1

TEW, thank you so much for this input! I agree the Decauville (which I wasn't aware of) light rail format looks likely, albeit a double handling of stretchers from Proyart CCS onto a main Ambulance Train. I'll track down the 9 (and possibly 10) Corps MDS diary as I recall from one lower unit diary the 32nd Division may have switched over Corps around 10th Sept. Great if it can be narrowed down to Proyart. I thought I recall another post string around AT records that enable a definite check on individuals evacuated, and then that narrows the CCSs down to those on that route that day. Many thanks again, really appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEW
Posted (edited)

37 and 53 CCSs are also mentioned in the 9 Corps DDMS diary but 37 was not open at the time and I think 53 opened on 11th and admitted 4 patients. Neither seemed likely.

4th Army DMS only mentions the Proyart group had to load at La Flacque siding 3/4 mile away.

TEW

 

Edited by TEW
Correction of predictive text

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WolvercoteWW1

TEW, do you know what the Primary group is in this context? On the trench map La Flacque still looks to be on the light rail system, presumably 2 ft gauge. I've downloaded 22 and 33 AT diaries so will see what they say later. I am assuming the linear feature just below La Flacque is the St Quentin Amiens road not a rail line. This feels like a narrowing down of the CCS issue - it would be great to get him confirmed on one of the AT's!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEW

Ah! PRIMARY is predictive text for Proyart!

 

I've not seen any maps for this area/time. The 3/4 is 3 quarters or 1.2 Km if it wasn't clear.

 

Not all trench maps show the main railway lines so the map you have may only show the narrow gauge line.

 

The only ORs I've ever seen detailed in an ambulance train diary are those that died en route. Usually there's just a tally of lying, sitting, sick, wounded, officers, ORs, Germans, French etc

TEW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WolvercoteWW1

TEW, it looks as you say to be Proyart as the most likely candidate, with either AT30 or less likely AT22. Having now downloaded it, the diary of AT19 serving CCS 53 at La Chapelette, shows it arrived there from Amiens on 15th Sept (4 days after the wounding which seems too long a wait for a GS Wound) but returned to Le Havre, not Rouen, which the Proyart ATs went to, and where our casualty was treated. The diary of DDMS IX Corps does, in a medical arrangements annex dated 12th Sept (day after the wounding), state Brie (48 CCS) was opening soon, but Proyart (5 & 41 CCS) are the nearest to the relevant front sector. I really appreciate your help with this - 1 CCS location, 2 CCS's 2 possible AT's is pretty narrowed down for us! All fascinating. There is no document showing where Regimental Aid Posts were, but I've plotted Relay Posts (presuambly RAMC/FA stretcher posts), ADS,s, MDS and now CCS. We have the various hospitals (3 - 1 France, 2 UK) recorded in his record. Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEW

Yes, I think 9 Corps had only just taken over this for stage and were still settling in and organising things around 10th/11th Sept.

Sounds as though you found quite a lot.

TEW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WolvercoteWW1

Yes, very pleased! Thanks again for your help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
suesalter1

What is the best way of finding the war diary for a CCS? I always find the National Archives site a puzzle when I'm looking for war diaries and Ancestry's no better.

 

Sue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TEW

Sue,

CCS diaries are not available via Ancestry.

 

For TNA this is my approach;

 

Use the advanced search version of Discovery.

 

Where it says Search for or within references. Any of these references, type in wo95.

 

Where it says Find words, Exact word or phrase, type in 12 casualty.

 

Hit search and you get the 4 results for 12 CCS.

Hope that works.

TEW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
suesalter1

Bingo! Thanks! Bonus that they are free to download right now. A good thing to come out of the pandemic!

 

Sue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...