Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Thomas Jones

Service record for A Jones 20697 14th Battalion RWF

Recommended Posts

Thomas Jones

Proud to discover my Great-Great-Grandfathers were in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers during WW1 and survived Memetz wood and the Somme.

They were in the 14th and 9th Battalions.

Lance Corporal Arthur Jones 20697 and Private Thomas Williams 13682 / 474332

They both received 3 medals each. 14-15 Star, British Medal and Victory medal.

I have found the service record for Thomas and there is literally loads included.

Saw action in Mametz and was sent to the Hospital ship Asturias for GSW/shrapnel? wounds to both legs.

I cannot find the record for Arthur Jones 20697

I would be extremely grateful of advice where to find him and where to find photographs of them.

Any information would be fantastic.

Best Thomas Jones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

It looks as if his service record has not survived.

 

However the actual Medal Roll shows what units he served with but not the dates

jones.jpg.31a47034a531aca15d9b1d5273f5abda.jpg

 

Armed with the War Diary, you can get a day by day chart of his life in 14th RWF. Someone reading this who is quicker on WDs than I will give you a link to the diary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

And the Star Roll tells you when he landed in France 1st Dec 1915 , and when he was demobbed

 1st Apr 1919

jones2.jpg.be7ba1996124363cdb08e58f3f141f24.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones

Thank you both for the quick replies.  Such a shame his record did not survive though.  Did'nt they catch fire? 

Thank you for the information... I really appreciate it.

I have only just started on this journey to find out about them but it already doesn't feel like a long time ago now.

Looking forward to hopefully finding a photograph, of them (Arthur and Thomas) or their battalions.

Many thanks,

Thomas Jones

do you know what the 'Att/235 Emp.Coy' means?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
Posted (edited)

There's also a copy of the 14th Bn. available for viewing and download free from the Cymru 1914 website.

The original is at University College Library, Bangor.

https://cymru1914.org/en/view/archive/4073704

 

I don't know how / if it differs from the diary at the NA.

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROGSMILE
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Thomas Jones said:

Thank you both for the quick replies.  Such a shame his record did not survive though.  Did'nt they catch fire? 

Thank you for the information... I really appreciate it.

I have only just started on this journey to find out about them but it already doesn't feel like a long time ago now.

Looking forward to hopefully finding a photograph, of them (Arthur and Thomas) or their battalions.

Many thanks,

Thomas Jones

do you know what the 'Att/235 Emp.Coy' means?


235 Employment Company was a unit of the Labour Corps.  Employment Companies of two types, Area and Divisional, provided specialised roles to support the administrative infrastructure of mostly static units such as hospitals, training schools, storage dumps and formation headquarters.  Their men were either, permanently, or temporarily medically downgraded and fit for labour, but not for front line infantry service.  They carried out such roles as cook, groom, batman (servant) telephone operator, laundryman, sanitary man, tailor, shoemaker, guard, etc. the list was quite long.

 

‘Att’ means attached to.  As in a temporary employment.

 

235 was a Divisional Employment Company and as such probably engaged on work within the Division that 14th RWF was a part of, 38th (Welsh Division).

Edited by FROGSMILE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ajsmith
20 minutes ago, Thomas Jones said:

Did'nt they catch fire? 

They were largely destroyed or at best damaged by enemy action in September 1940

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones
2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

There's also a copy of the 14th Bn. available for viewing and download free from the Cymru 1914 website.

The original is at University College Library, Bangor.

https://cymru1914.org/en/view/archive/4073704

 

wow, that's amazing thank you!

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:


235 Employment Company was a unit of the Labour Corps.  Employment Companies of two types, Area and Divisiona,l provided specialised roles to support the administrative infrastructure of mostly static units such as hospitals, training schools, storage dumps and formation headquarters.  Their men were either, permanently, or temporarily medically downgraded and fit for labour, but not for front line infantry service.  They carried out such roles as cook, groom, batman (servant) telephone operator, laundryman, sanitary man, tailor, shoemaker, guard, etc. the list was quite long.

 

‘Att’ means attached to.  As in a temporary employment.

 

235 was a Divisional Employment Company and as such probably engaged on work within the Division that 14th RWF was a part of, 38th (Welsh Division).

 

so much information from a few letters. Thank you for your help, it means a lot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clive_hughes

The early December 1915 embarkation roll for 14th Bn. RWF survives, and 20697 A.O.Jones had a next-of-kin address of 15 Ambrose Street, Hirael, Bangor, Caernarfonshire.  The 6 or 8 numbers before his are also allocated to men from the Hirael or Lower Bangor district (where my father was brought up in the 1920s-30s). 

 

Clive

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones

Thanks Clive, that is priceless information. 

Arthur lived in 54 Ambrose Street and I'll look up who lived in 15 Ambrose Street. Hopefully they are in the 1911 census.

Am I able to view the embarkation roll online somewhere?  The Bangor Roll of Service has names of the men from Hirael who went to the front.

I was lucky to find Arthur, as the Roll had him in the 16th Battalion and no service number. 

I found his name and address with the 14th Battalion during the Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1937 Reunion in Llandinam.

Do you know of this reunion?  I am trying to find the below booklets to buy if possible

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/27172

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/26680

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/26414

These were crucial discoveries for me or Arthur Owen would have been lost completely.

The War was so hushed up I only discovered last week he was in WW1 by chance looking through the Bangor's Roll of Service.

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4242943/4242949 

Also, Forces War Records had him in as Archur O Jones and no address so had a bit of work cut out to confirm him as Arthur O Jones

What was your fathers name?  I may have read something of your family going through all the Censuses.

Arthur O also lived in 8 Club Street, Hirael and then 7 Seiriol Road. 

Many thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it, Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
Posted (edited)

This was the reunion photo:

(Courtesy GWF 1967)

 

14th Bn.  RWF1937.jpg

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones

AMAZING Thanks!

The reunion memeto puts an asterisk* by his name showing he attended.

To think he's actually in that photo means a lot. 

An old neighbour told us he was 6'4" and the guy on the far left looks identical to my Great Grandfather, so he could very possibly be him.

Is there somewhere I can hunt for a photo him before they embarked? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Thomas Jones said:

I found his name and address with the 14th Battalion during the Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1937 Reunion in Llandinam.

Do you know of this reunion?  I am trying to find the below booklets to buy if possible

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/27172

 

Thanks for posting the links;  I have the first booklet, the 6" x 10" reunion photograph posted in #12 by Dai, and a pamphlet entitled "Supplementary Hymns". I don't have the other two booklets in your link. It's good to see the set.

 

My copy was previously owned by this man in the mid-rear.RWF. Llandinham.jpg

 

14th RWF reunion (2).jpg

14th RWF reunion... (2).jpg

14th RWF.. reunion. (2).jpg

2 hours ago, Thomas Jones said:

To think he's actually in that photo means a lot. 

An old neighbour told us he was 6'4" and the guy on the far left looks identical to my Great Grandfather, so he could very possibly be him.

 

RWF.,Llandinham (2).jpg

Is this the chap you mean?

Edited by GWF1967

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clive_hughes

Nice to see the list of different booklets etc.  The driving force behind the reunions was David Davies, Lord Llandinam, who was the first CO of the 14th RWF until pulled back to the UK on the eve of the Mametz Wood battle.  

 

As a young man I had a chance to talk to Willie Gordon Jones DCM MM of Hirael who would have known your relative.  He had some of these booklets, which I hope are still with the family.  In the late 1970s he was asked by the RWF Comrades to lay one of the wreaths at Bangor cenotaph on Remembrance Day, which he was very pleased and proud to be able to do. 

I had thought his medals went to the Regimental Museum, but apparently not.  Sadly, he died on 29.12.1978 aged 87 before I could arrange to tape-record him.  He is buried in Glanadda Cemetery.  

 

There might possibly be reasons as to why two addresses in Ambrose Street are shown.  One is the common one of a typo/error.  The other is that the newspaper might well print his own residential address, while the embarkation roll would use the standard Army practice of noting the details of his stated next of kin.  Just possibilities, anyway.  Two methods of checking would be on the contemporary Electoral Rolls for that street (if they survive at the Gwynedd County Record Office); and his details shown on the Absent Voters List 1918 for Bangor. member Hywyn on this Forum might be able to help you there. 

 

At the Bangor University Archives (ref.Bangor Mss. 7059, 7060) are the papers of Major Wheldon, which include a war diary transcript, embarkation roll, and other material of interest re. the 14th RWF.  

 

Clive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
15 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

I have the first booklet, the 6" x 10" reunion photograph posted in #12 by Dai,

Apologies, I failed to acknowledge the source until now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967
34 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Apologies, I failed to acknowledge the source until now.

No apologies needed Dai. 

 I wasn’t certain if it was the same image or one you’d found elsewhere, either way I posted in the hope it would be of interest to relatives of these men or others researching them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967
8 hours ago, Thomas Jones said:

Thanks for posting the set.

It’s the 48 page (42 + blanks and covers) I have. Good to see other copies have survived. 

 I think the fire at Plas Dinam was 2001; my neighbour was involved in the renovation work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones

No problem, I'll be keeping a sharp lookout for any that come available for sale.

Thanks Clive, I will be checking the electoral rolls for information

Arthur Owen Jones would definitely have known William Gordon Jones.  Hirael's a tight knit community, even today.

They lived across the road from each other in Hirael and were both in Llandinam so more than likely travelled to down in the group.

 

I don't have a photo of Arthur Owen yet but have worked on William Gordons photo today.  Hope you all approve of it.

The original photo was from here - Sgt. William Gordon Jones DCM MM Bangor Civic Society

Let me know if the information needs revising.  Looking to do a few more.

The Llandinam group photo will be good coloured... but really like the B&W.

Cofion Gorau, Tom

 

Sgt-William-Gordon-Jones-3-Fair-View-Road-Bangor-1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones

Sorry, just thought. I don't have any rights whatsoever on the coloured photo of Sgt. William Gordon Jones.  Its for all to use as needed.

It was nice project I wanted to do while I had the time.  If there are any important photos that you need help repairing or colouring I'm happy to help out.

I'm really grateful of the help I'm getting tracing my family history and War history so I'm more than happy to give back in some way.

Best, Thomas

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
Posted (edited)

You a Bangurlad Tom?

 

24 minutes ago, Thomas Jones said:

Sorry, just thought. I don't have any rights whatsoever on the coloured photo of Sgt. William Gordon Jones.  Its for all to use as needed.

It was nice project I wanted to do while I had the time.  If there are any important photos that you need help repairing or colouring I'm happy to help out.

I'm really grateful of the help I'm getting tracing my family history and War history so I'm more than happy to give back in some way.

Best, Thomas

 

 

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones
Posted (edited)

 

'Aye' I'm a Bangor Lad aye. Long history of family in Hirael.  My parents moved from Bangor to work in Cheshire as country estate managers. Lifes pretty good in Cheshire and can see why my parents made the move but miss Bangor and the sea, Porth Penrhyn.  My Taid was Ken Jones, son of Arthur 'Pengwyn' Jones. Doing my family tree and it's mostly Bangor.  Did you know Ken or Arthur?

Edited by Thomas Jones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thomas Jones
On 18/06/2020 at 08:19, Thomas Jones said:

 

 

Another 14th Battalion RWF booklet to add to the collection list above. 

For people not seen it before it has their War Diary, Decorations List etc. and a group photo of the 14th on parade in Winchester 1915.

This booklet belonged to Private John A. Clarke 20670 

Along with many other things, it is stored in the Papers of Major W.P. Wheldon Collection - Archives and Special Collections, Bangor University.

 

19 Page Booklet - WAR DIARY OF THE 14TH (SERVICE) BATTN. ROYAL WELSH FUSILIERS, N.D

 

I'm looking into the 1st reunion of the 14th Battalion RWF, 1920.  Does anybody have any links or information? 

Best, Tom J, Bangor

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
On 19/06/2020 at 14:18, Thomas Jones said:

Doing my family tree and it's mostly Bangor.  Did you know Ken or Arthur?

No, sorry, I lived in Anglesey.

Did my driving test around those streets though. Farrar Road, down Deiniol Road, up Glynne Road, reversing round the corner in Orme Road etc. Emergency stop in Ffordd Islwyn. Turned right instead of left somewhere too. Still passed though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...