Thomas Jones Posted 16 June , 2020 Share Posted 16 June , 2020 Proud to discover my Great-Great-Grandfathers were in the Royal Welsh Fusiliers during WW1 and survived Memetz wood and the Somme. They were in the 14th and 9th Battalions. Lance Corporal Arthur Jones 20697 and Private Thomas Williams 13682 / 474332 They both received 3 medals each. 14-15 Star, British Medal and Victory medal. I have found the service record for Thomas and there is literally loads included. Saw action in Mametz and was sent to the Hospital ship Asturias for GSW/shrapnel? wounds to both legs. I cannot find the record for Arthur Jones 20697 I would be extremely grateful of advice where to find him and where to find photographs of them. Any information would be fantastic. Best Thomas Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 June , 2020 Share Posted 16 June , 2020 It looks as if his service record has not survived. However the actual Medal Roll shows what units he served with but not the dates Armed with the War Diary, you can get a day by day chart of his life in 14th RWF. Someone reading this who is quicker on WDs than I will give you a link to the diary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 16 June , 2020 Share Posted 16 June , 2020 And the Star Roll tells you when he landed in France 1st Dec 1915 , and when he was demobbed 1st Apr 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 16 June , 2020 Share Posted 16 June , 2020 The diary for the 14th is here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 16 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2020 Thank you both for the quick replies. Such a shame his record did not survive though. Did'nt they catch fire? Thank you for the information... I really appreciate it. I have only just started on this journey to find out about them but it already doesn't feel like a long time ago now. Looking forward to hopefully finding a photograph, of them (Arthur and Thomas) or their battalions. Many thanks, Thomas Jones do you know what the 'Att/235 Emp.Coy' means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 16 June , 2020 Share Posted 16 June , 2020 (edited) There's also a copy of the 14th Bn. available for viewing and download free from the Cymru 1914 website. The original is at University College Library, Bangor. https://cymru1914.org/en/view/archive/4073704 I don't know how / if it differs from the diary at the NA. Edited 16 June , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 16 June , 2020 Share Posted 16 June , 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Thomas Jones said: Thank you both for the quick replies. Such a shame his record did not survive though. Did'nt they catch fire? Thank you for the information... I really appreciate it. I have only just started on this journey to find out about them but it already doesn't feel like a long time ago now. Looking forward to hopefully finding a photograph, of them (Arthur and Thomas) or their battalions. Many thanks, Thomas Jones do you know what the 'Att/235 Emp.Coy' means? 235 Employment Company was a unit of the Labour Corps. Employment Companies of two types, Area and Divisional, provided specialised roles to support the administrative infrastructure of mostly static units such as hospitals, training schools, storage dumps and formation headquarters. Their men were either, permanently, or temporarily medically downgraded and fit for labour, but not for front line infantry service. They carried out such roles as cook, groom, batman (servant) telephone operator, laundryman, sanitary man, tailor, shoemaker, guard, etc. the list was quite long. ‘Att’ means attached to. As in a temporary employment. 235 was a Divisional Employment Company and as such probably engaged on work within the Division that 14th RWF was a part of, 38th (Welsh Division). Edited 16 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 16 June , 2020 Share Posted 16 June , 2020 20 minutes ago, Thomas Jones said: Did'nt they catch fire? They were largely destroyed or at best damaged by enemy action in September 1940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 16 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2020 2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: There's also a copy of the 14th Bn. available for viewing and download free from the Cymru 1914 website. The original is at University College Library, Bangor. https://cymru1914.org/en/view/archive/4073704 wow, that's amazing thank you! 2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: 235 Employment Company was a unit of the Labour Corps. Employment Companies of two types, Area and Divisiona,l provided specialised roles to support the administrative infrastructure of mostly static units such as hospitals, training schools, storage dumps and formation headquarters. Their men were either, permanently, or temporarily medically downgraded and fit for labour, but not for front line infantry service. They carried out such roles as cook, groom, batman (servant) telephone operator, laundryman, sanitary man, tailor, shoemaker, guard, etc. the list was quite long. ‘Att’ means attached to. As in a temporary employment. 235 was a Divisional Employment Company and as such probably engaged on work within the Division that 14th RWF was a part of, 38th (Welsh Division). so much information from a few letters. Thank you for your help, it means a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 17 June , 2020 Share Posted 17 June , 2020 The early December 1915 embarkation roll for 14th Bn. RWF survives, and 20697 A.O.Jones had a next-of-kin address of 15 Ambrose Street, Hirael, Bangor, Caernarfonshire. The 6 or 8 numbers before his are also allocated to men from the Hirael or Lower Bangor district (where my father was brought up in the 1920s-30s). Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 17 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2020 Thanks Clive, that is priceless information. Arthur lived in 54 Ambrose Street and I'll look up who lived in 15 Ambrose Street. Hopefully they are in the 1911 census. Am I able to view the embarkation roll online somewhere? The Bangor Roll of Service has names of the men from Hirael who went to the front. I was lucky to find Arthur, as the Roll had him in the 16th Battalion and no service number. I found his name and address with the 14th Battalion during the Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1937 Reunion in Llandinam. Do you know of this reunion? I am trying to find the below booklets to buy if possible https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/27172 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/26680 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/26414 These were crucial discoveries for me or Arthur Owen would have been lost completely. The War was so hushed up I only discovered last week he was in WW1 by chance looking through the Bangor's Roll of Service. https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4242943/4242949 Also, Forces War Records had him in as Archur O Jones and no address so had a bit of work cut out to confirm him as Arthur O Jones What was your fathers name? I may have read something of your family going through all the Censuses. Arthur O also lived in 8 Club Street, Hirael and then 7 Seiriol Road. Many thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it, Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 17 June , 2020 Share Posted 17 June , 2020 (edited) This was the reunion photo: (Courtesy GWF 1967) Edited 18 June , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 17 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2020 AMAZING Thanks! The reunion memeto puts an asterisk* by his name showing he attended. To think he's actually in that photo means a lot. An old neighbour told us he was 6'4" and the guy on the far left looks identical to my Great Grandfather, so he could very possibly be him. Is there somewhere I can hunt for a photo him before they embarked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 17 June , 2020 Share Posted 17 June , 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thomas Jones said: I found his name and address with the 14th Battalion during the Royal Welsh Fusiliers 1937 Reunion in Llandinam. Do you know of this reunion? I am trying to find the below booklets to buy if possible https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/27172 Thanks for posting the links; I have the first booklet, the 6" x 10" reunion photograph posted in #12 by Dai, and a pamphlet entitled "Supplementary Hymns". I don't have the other two booklets in your link. It's good to see the set. My copy was previously owned by this man in the mid-rear. 2 hours ago, Thomas Jones said: To think he's actually in that photo means a lot. An old neighbour told us he was 6'4" and the guy on the far left looks identical to my Great Grandfather, so he could very possibly be him. Is this the chap you mean? Edited 17 June , 2020 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 18 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2020 Yes that's possibly Arthur Owen Jones. It's a long shot out of all the men but I have a family on Anglesey should have information and photographs. I'll post when been. I found another 14th RWF 1937 Reunion Booklet and a few others which I think completes the set. The 48 page booklet has a good bit of information on the 14th Battalion RWF. Lucky to have this as it survived a fire in Plas Dinam in 2002, and was found by the current Lady Davies in 2019. 14th Battalion RWF 1937 and 1939 Reunion 48 page Booklet - Lord Davies' Memento Booklet: Royal Welch Fusiliers WW1 14th Battalion Reunion, Llandinam 30th July-4th August 1937 24 Page Booklet - Memento of the 1937 Reunion of the 14th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers at Llandinam 6 Page Booklet - Programme for the Second Reunion of the 14th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Battalion at Llandinam, 30 July - 4 August, 1937 6 Page Booklet - A service of remembrance and dedication to servicemen of the 14th Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 1 August 1937 4 Page Booklet - Royal Welsh Fusiliers 14th Battalion Reunion Hymn Programme, 30 July - 4 August, 1937 Large Group Photo - Reunion of the 14th Service Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Llandinam, 1937 2 Page Booklet - Invitation to a Rhyl Reunion Dinner and France Trip Internary for the 14th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Old Comrades' Association, 16 January, 1939 1939 Dinner Group Photo - 14th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers Old Comrades' Dinner, Rhyl, 1939 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 18 June , 2020 Share Posted 18 June , 2020 Nice to see the list of different booklets etc. The driving force behind the reunions was David Davies, Lord Llandinam, who was the first CO of the 14th RWF until pulled back to the UK on the eve of the Mametz Wood battle. As a young man I had a chance to talk to Willie Gordon Jones DCM MM of Hirael who would have known your relative. He had some of these booklets, which I hope are still with the family. In the late 1970s he was asked by the RWF Comrades to lay one of the wreaths at Bangor cenotaph on Remembrance Day, which he was very pleased and proud to be able to do. I had thought his medals went to the Regimental Museum, but apparently not. Sadly, he died on 29.12.1978 aged 87 before I could arrange to tape-record him. He is buried in Glanadda Cemetery. There might possibly be reasons as to why two addresses in Ambrose Street are shown. One is the common one of a typo/error. The other is that the newspaper might well print his own residential address, while the embarkation roll would use the standard Army practice of noting the details of his stated next of kin. Just possibilities, anyway. Two methods of checking would be on the contemporary Electoral Rolls for that street (if they survive at the Gwynedd County Record Office); and his details shown on the Absent Voters List 1918 for Bangor. member Hywyn on this Forum might be able to help you there. At the Bangor University Archives (ref.Bangor Mss. 7059, 7060) are the papers of Major Wheldon, which include a war diary transcript, embarkation roll, and other material of interest re. the 14th RWF. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 18 June , 2020 Share Posted 18 June , 2020 15 hours ago, GWF1967 said: I have the first booklet, the 6" x 10" reunion photograph posted in #12 by Dai, Apologies, I failed to acknowledge the source until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 18 June , 2020 Share Posted 18 June , 2020 34 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Apologies, I failed to acknowledge the source until now. No apologies needed Dai. I wasn’t certain if it was the same image or one you’d found elsewhere, either way I posted in the hope it would be of interest to relatives of these men or others researching them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 18 June , 2020 Share Posted 18 June , 2020 8 hours ago, Thomas Jones said: I found another 14th RWF 1937 Reunion Booklet and a few others which I think completes the set. The 48 page booklet has a good bit of information on the 14th Battalion RWF. Lucky to have this as it survived a fire in Plas Dinam in 2002, and was found by the current Lady Davies in 2019. 14th Battalion RWF 1937 and 1939 Reunion 48 page Booklet - Lord Davies' Memento Booklet: Royal Welch Fusiliers WW1 14th Battalion Reunion, Llandinam 30th July-4th August 1937 24 Page Booklet - Memento of the 1937 Reunion of the 14th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers at Llandinam 6 Page Booklet - Programme for the Second Reunion of the 14th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Battalion at Llandinam, 30 July - 4 August, 1937 6 Page Booklet - A service of remembrance and dedication to servicemen of the 14th Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 1 August 1937 4 Page Booklet - Royal Welsh Fusiliers 14th Battalion Reunion Hymn Programme, 30 July - 4 August, 1937 Large Group Photo - Reunion of the 14th Service Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Llandinam, 1937 2 Page Booklet - Invitation to a Rhyl Reunion Dinner and France Trip Internary for the 14th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Old Comrades' Association, 16 January, 1939 1939 Dinner Group Photo - 14th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers Old Comrades' Dinner, Rhyl, 1939 Thanks for posting the set. It’s the 48 page (42 + blanks and covers) I have. Good to see other copies have survived. I think the fire at Plas Dinam was 2001; my neighbour was involved in the renovation work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 18 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2020 No problem, I'll be keeping a sharp lookout for any that come available for sale. Thanks Clive, I will be checking the electoral rolls for information Arthur Owen Jones would definitely have known William Gordon Jones. Hirael's a tight knit community, even today. They lived across the road from each other in Hirael and were both in Llandinam so more than likely travelled to down in the group. I don't have a photo of Arthur Owen yet but have worked on William Gordons photo today. Hope you all approve of it. The original photo was from here - Sgt. William Gordon Jones DCM MM Bangor Civic Society Let me know if the information needs revising. Looking to do a few more. The Llandinam group photo will be good coloured... but really like the B&W. Cofion Gorau, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 19 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2020 Sorry, just thought. I don't have any rights whatsoever on the coloured photo of Sgt. William Gordon Jones. Its for all to use as needed. It was nice project I wanted to do while I had the time. If there are any important photos that you need help repairing or colouring I'm happy to help out. I'm really grateful of the help I'm getting tracing my family history and War history so I'm more than happy to give back in some way. Best, Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 19 June , 2020 Share Posted 19 June , 2020 (edited) You a Bangurlad Tom? 24 minutes ago, Thomas Jones said: Sorry, just thought. I don't have any rights whatsoever on the coloured photo of Sgt. William Gordon Jones. Its for all to use as needed. It was nice project I wanted to do while I had the time. If there are any important photos that you need help repairing or colouring I'm happy to help out. I'm really grateful of the help I'm getting tracing my family history and War history so I'm more than happy to give back in some way. Best, Thomas Edited 19 June , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 19 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2020 (edited) 'Aye' I'm a Bangor Lad aye. Long history of family in Hirael. My parents moved from Bangor to work in Cheshire as country estate managers. Lifes pretty good in Cheshire and can see why my parents made the move but miss Bangor and the sea, Porth Penrhyn. My Taid was Ken Jones, son of Arthur 'Pengwyn' Jones. Doing my family tree and it's mostly Bangor. Did you know Ken or Arthur? Edited 19 June , 2020 by Thomas Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jones Posted 4 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2020 On 18/06/2020 at 08:19, Thomas Jones said: Yes that's possibly Arthur Owen Jones. It's a long shot out of all the men but I have a family on Anglesey should have information and photographs. I'll post when been. I found another 14th RWF 1937 Reunion Booklet and a few others which I think completes the set. The 48 page booklet has a good bit of information on the 14th Battalion RWF. Lucky to have this as it survived a fire in Plas Dinam in 2002, and was found by the current Lady Davies in 2019. 14th Battalion RWF 1937 and 1939 Reunion 48 page Booklet - Lord Davies' Memento Booklet: Royal Welch Fusiliers WW1 14th Battalion Reunion, Llandinam 30th July-4th August 1937 24 Page Booklet - Memento of the 1937 Reunion of the 14th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers at Llandinam 6 Page Booklet - Programme for the Second Reunion of the 14th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Battalion at Llandinam, 30 July - 4 August, 1937 6 Page Booklet - A service of remembrance and dedication to servicemen of the 14th Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 1 August 1937 4 Page Booklet - Royal Welsh Fusiliers 14th Battalion Reunion Hymn Programme, 30 July - 4 August, 1937 Large Group Photo - Reunion of the 14th Service Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Llandinam, 1937 2 Page Booklet - Invitation to a Rhyl Reunion Dinner and France Trip Internary for the 14th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Old Comrades' Association, 16 January, 1939 1939 Dinner Group Photo - 14th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers Old Comrades' Dinner, Rhyl, 1939 Another 14th Battalion RWF booklet to add to the collection list above. For people not seen it before it has their War Diary, Decorations List etc. and a group photo of the 14th on parade in Winchester 1915. This booklet belonged to Private John A. Clarke 20670 Along with many other things, it is stored in the Papers of Major W.P. Wheldon Collection - Archives and Special Collections, Bangor University. 19 Page Booklet - WAR DIARY OF THE 14TH (SERVICE) BATTN. ROYAL WELSH FUSILIERS, N.D I'm looking into the 1st reunion of the 14th Battalion RWF, 1920. Does anybody have any links or information? Best, Tom J, Bangor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 On 19/06/2020 at 14:18, Thomas Jones said: Doing my family tree and it's mostly Bangor. Did you know Ken or Arthur? No, sorry, I lived in Anglesey. Did my driving test around those streets though. Farrar Road, down Deiniol Road, up Glynne Road, reversing round the corner in Orme Road etc. Emergency stop in Ffordd Islwyn. Turned right instead of left somewhere too. Still passed though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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