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Guest Verity

12th battalion royal fusiliers

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Guest Verity

I am currently trying to chase details of where my grandfather was injured in the first world war and have in my posession a medical officers diary from 6th January 1917 until 3rd May 1917. I believe it is of the 12th battalion of royal fusiliers who formed part of the 24th division. There are various names in there but if anyone would like me to email a copy as soon as I have finished typing it out please let me know. My grandfather was sgt slater who I know was injured by a bullet wound to the left lung and returned to Fazzakerly hospital before going over to Ireland. I would love to know where he was injured. Has anyone any ideas where I could find out - I don't even know the date.

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Paul Reed

I would very much like a copy of this - thanks for offering to share it.

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John Holmes

Verity,

I believe the division was in 1st Army near Souchez and fought on the left flank of the Canadian Corps in the attack on Vimy Ridge. The actual whereabouts of the 12th Royal Fusiliers I cannot help with but someone else might be able to pinpoint them for you. There is a memorial to the division in Battersea Park on the embankment with all the battalions badges on.

Regards

John

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steve fuller

Hi Verity

Here is the 24th Division Summary showing what battles he may have been involved in, if he was in the 12th RF's. http://www.1914-1918.net/24div.htm

Doesnt help your cause specifically, but the 7th beds diary has the 12th RF's at Baboon Camp / Sanctuary Road area November 1917 (theres a paragraph about their training programme in the 7th beds diary for some reason?).

Do you have his Medal index card yet? If not, searching under 'Serjeant' and Slater', 181 results come up. Assuming the RF's are accurate, those mentioning the RF's specifically are:

http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...resultcount=181 (Henry E Slater)

http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...resultcount=181 (George W Slater)

http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...resultcount=181 (Alfred S Slater)

Of any use to you?

And I would love a copy when you finish, if convenient? Thank you very much :D

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Guest Hill 60

Verity - I would like to take you up on your offer of a copy of this diary.

One of my great uncles was in the 12th RF (see signature and this LINK).

Although he was dead by 1917 I would still love to have a copy.

Many thanks,

Lee

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BarryF

Verity,

I was very interested to read your posting (my thanks to Lee Bradbury for yet another timely prompt!). If it is not too much trouble, I would very much like to have a copy of the MO's diary. In return I can send you some information regarding the 12th Battalion Royal Fusiliers that could be of help to you.

I have drafted a book on the history of the unit. My father served in 12RF from its formation in 1914 through to its disbandment in February 1918 but, while he was the inspiration for the book, it is not about him - it is about all the men and their service in France and Belgium.

I have a considerable collection of papers, diaries, photographs, maps etc and I can send you copies where they may be relevant to Sgt Slater's service with the unit. I have the War Diary on disc - and so can send you excerpts either as images of the original, or as text. I can certainly give you their day-by-day diary during the period that interests you. I also have other records for the same months in 1917.

If you send me your grandfather's first names I shall look for him in my records - but I regret to say that the chances of finding a trace are slim. I can confirm that the name Slater does not appear in the War Diary, but this is not unusual. I do, however, have several other documents and lists that I can search.

Returning to the MO, I wonder if you could you let me know his name. The Battalion MO from the 7th October 1916 to 9th June 1917 was a Capt. C. A. Whittingham RAMC. He was mortally wounded on the 9th June soon after the start of the Battle of Messines and died at midnight. I have much info about this brave officer.

If you e-mail me with your own e-mail address and as much information as possible about Sgt Slater, I'll be able to send you some papers. I look forward to hearing from you.

Barry

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BarryF

Steve,

A favour - could you send me a copy of that 7th Beds War Diary page. I have a particular interest in the 12RF activities in November 1917. Does the diary give any map references for Baboon Camp?

Many thanks, Barry

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BarryF

Verity,

I have looked for your grandfather, 1731 Sgt Thomas Slater Royal Fusiliers, and have found two Medal Index Cards (I have sent copies to your e-mail address), one in the name of Slater, and one in the name of Stater. They are the same man.

The interesting information is on the mis-spelled Stater MIC. Here you can see that your grandfather served first in the 12th Battalion Royal Fusiliers and then in the 6th Battalion Royal Fusiliers.

We also have his date of entry into France - 1st September 1915. This is the day that the main party of 12RF disembarked at Boulogne from the channel steamer, the "Queen".

Finally on the Stater MIC, we have confirmation of his three medals - the 1915 Star, British War Medal, and Victory Medal.

On the Slater MIC, he is shown as “Sgt, GS/1731”.

At the moment we can be sure of little else but, while we make other enquiries, let's assume that your grandfather was with 12RF at least for their first month in France. This assumption would place him at the Battle of Loos where, in their first battle, 12RF acquitted themselves well - a fascinating story that I shall send you under separate cover.

Turning to the 6th Battalion, it is likely that your grandfather was posted to this unit after he had been wounded. 6RF was a Reserve Battalion based in the early months of the war in Dover where they formed part of the Dover defences. Their CO was Lt Col R. C. Batt M.V.O. The 6th (Reserve) Battalion, based in England until 1917, also prepared drafts for the Fusilier battalions overseas. 6RF was sent to Carrickfergus, Ireland, at the end of June 1917. In early 1918, they had the pleasure of entertaining for three days about 600 NCO's and men of the American Expeditionary Force who had been rescued from the S.S Tuscania that had been torpedoed off the Irish coast.

Do you know if your grandfather's service papers have survived at the National Archives? Also, if he was wounded, he may be listed on a Silver War Badge roll.

I'll continue looking in my records for more information. I’m sure that you will be able to build up a picture of the background to his service but you will only be able to be more specific if his service papers have survived (but I do not hold out much hope there) or he is listed on another roll such as the SWB, or if he received a pension and a record of it exists.

Meanwhile I shall get some extracts and photo's on disc for you.

Barry

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paharrison

Verity,

My GG was in the 12RF and was injured at some time. He was bayonetted and gassed. Is there any chance you could send me a copy of the MO diary? Greatly appreciated.

Pte Richard Stanley Harrison GS-5438

Peter

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DesK161

Verity,

Just seen this thread and I too would be very interested in getting a copy if still available. Further to Barry F's comments I am interested in researching the Adj of the battalion, Captain Gerard M Gordon, who was killed at the same time as Capt Whittingham. Indeed the same shell also wounded another officer and mortally wounded the CO, Lt Col Compton.

Regards,

Des

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BarryF
...

My GG was in the 12RF and was injured at some time. He was bayonetted and gassed .... Pte Richard Stanley Harrison GS-5438

Peter,

I have been researching 12RF (in which my father served) for many years and have managed to build up a roll of names which I am gradually researching. The list contains nearly 3,000 names now. I have not yet looked to see if your Great Grandfather's service records have survived at Kew, but my records indicate that Richard Stanley Harrison served in France/Belgium with 12RF from the day they landed at Boulogne, 1 Sep 1915, right through to 29 Jan 1918.

As I am sure you know, in Jan/Feb 1918 the British were reorganising their order of battle which led to the disbandment of many battalions, including 12RF. I suspect that it was in that context that your relative was transferred to 10RF on the 30 Jan 1918. He stayed with 10RF (still in 'France') until the 13 Jun 1918.

On 14 Jun 1918 he transferred to 23RF (1st Sportsmen's Battalion), and he was with them until 30 Aug 1918. At a later date, he joined 6RF, a reserve battalion.

As far as your search for the likely time he was wounded, if he had been seriously wounded my best guess would be that it happened in 1918 while with 23F. His service with the Royal Fusiliers on the western front seems to have been continuous until he left France/Belgium at the end of Aug 1918. I am not up to speed on 23RF or the 2nd Division but I believe the Division was in France through to the Armistice and then formed part of the Occupation Force in Germany. So when your GReat Grandfather returned to the UK on 30 Aug 1918, perhaps it was as a result of being wounded (but this is not necessarily the case, of course).

If you have a photograph of your relative, I would be very interested to see a copy. In return, I can send you excerpts from the War Diary (I have transcribed it but I have also photographs of all the pages) from which you will see that your GG and 12RF served at Loos, Belgium including places such as Hill 60 and Sanctuary Wood, The Somme, Arras, Messines, 3rd Ypres and then back to the Somme area where it was disbanded.

Barry

PS After 10 years work I shall be publishing the History of 12RF very soon. I think I have been saying that for about 5 years! The 'day job' has intruded to delay matters - but in any case I prefer the research to the writing! The same fate has befallen the 12RF Web Site but I shall rectify that soon as well - allegedly.

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BarryF
Just seen this thread and I too would be very interested in getting a copy if still available. Further to Barry F's comments I am interested in researching the Adj of the battalion, Captain Gerard M Gordon, who was killed at the same time as Capt Whittingham. Indeed the same shell also wounded another officer and mortally wounded the CO, Lt Col Compton.

Des,

As you will see from my reply to Peter, I am very interested in anything to do with my father's battalion, 12RF. If you have any info on Capt Gordon, or any photographs, I'd be very interested to receive copies. If you send me a PM with some info about your interest in him, I'll send you copies of anything I have that may be relevant.

Barry

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paharrison

Barry,

I had not realized that he was posted to the 10th and then the 23rd! I have his MIC and it does not list the other two units. I was told by family that he had lasted the war overseas, but I assumed that was wrong with the injury info. Amazing.

Obviously anything else you have to offer, I would be greatfull of.

How do I get a JPEG to you of him ( I have two. 1 x him and his wife -Edith Clara Bright and 1 x him with some selct other R/F soldiers in the UK (I am assuming))? I have tried to copy paste on this msg. I am new to this site. If you have an email address, I would be happy to send the pics to you there ( I would not bother you at that address. Just through this site!!).

Thanks again,

Peter

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Matto

Hello,

This is my fiirst step into all this and I'm totally bewildered so I'm hoping you all might be able to help. I've been given a number of bibles and dictionaries that I beleive my grandfather and his brother carried with them in the first war. They seem to have been in the 6th Royal Fusiliers so i posted on this thread as it's the nearest I could find. Their names were William Taylor and Ernest Taylor. There are various messages in the covers of the books written in pencil, often hard to read but i've copied them below. Some of the text I've guessed at. [That is in Square Brackets]:

1) "To Lance Corporal W. Taylor. 6th Royal Fusiliers. France. Nov 10th 1916. A Token of Comeradeship and goodwill from G [A or F] W Havelock"

I am confused by this one as I understood the 6th never left England.

2) "[F Leut] W Taylor. 6th BN Royal Fus. [North Tall Meadows]. Dover June 1917"

Could he have been promoted that quickly?

3) The last book has 3 quotes. I only have 2 here today

One is REALLY hard to read but here goes:

" [Cadet W] Taylor. D Company. 10th Officers Cadet Ball. [Darles. Ayawhere. Sao Mourol] 17/2/17

" 2nd [lunt] W Taylor 9th Royal Fusiliers. France July 1917 [bEJ]

Again it's confusing as now the 9th Fusiliers are mentioned and France again. I think the location of the Cadet's ball could be a good clue. Maybe I could scan the pages and post them?

Does anyone have any helpful advice on where to start!!

Thanks

Matt

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Philip Wilson

Just seen this thread and I too would be very interested in getting a copy if still available. Further to Barry F's comments I am interested in researching the Adj of the battalion, Captain Gerard M Gordon, who was killed at the same time as Capt Whittingham. Indeed the same shell also wounded another officer and mortally wounded the CO, Lt Col Compton

That Officer was my grandfather - Captain J.V.Wilson, who commanded No.1 Company 12th Royal Fusiliers.

Here is page 2 of No 1 Company,12th Royal Fusiliers Roll of Honour, B.E.F Christmas 1916 which was signed by him.

page_2_Christmas_1916_12th_RF_a.doc

Those who might want a copy of the roll had best contact me direct by personal email.

Barry

I would welcome the opportunity to know how the Book on the 12th RF is progressing

My Grandfather transcribed the 12th War Diary using an old fashioned typewriter - we have a transcript here - he contributed to O'Neill's book on the Royal Fusiliers - we have some photos of the 12th here also.

Philip

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scotchegg75
2) "[F Leut] W Taylor. 6th BN Royal Fus. [North Tall Meadows]. Dover June 1917"

Matt

Interesting mentioning 6th at Northfall Meadow, I found this a few weeks back there !

3316289233_f6874dfdbb.jpg

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DesK161

Philip,

Hope this helps, info mainly from De Ruiv.

Gerard Montague Gordon was born in Sherborne on 8 Jan 1891 the youngest son of George Harry Gordon and his wife, Mary.

He was educated at Durnford House, Wellington College and the South Eastern Agricultural College, Wye, Kent. Whilst at Wellington he played for two years in the cricket XI and also represented his school in the Public Schools’ Racket competition at Queen’s Club. He was a member of the MCC and of the Free Foresters and for several seasons played for the Dorset County XI. He was also a fine horseman and athlete.

On 15 Aug 1914 he obtained a commission with the 3rd Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers and served on the Western Front from 9 Feb 1915 with the 12th (Service) Battalion and later became adjutant. At the beginning of 1917, he was admitted to hospital suffering from appendicitis. After recovering from an operation to remove his appendix he returned to the Front in May.

On the evening of 9 Jun 1917 the battalion had just relieved the 1st Battalion Royal Fusiliers in trenches near Amstrasse. At 9.45pm, Gordon was one of four officers, including the CO Lt Col Compton and the MO Capt Whittingham, wounded by a shell which landed on Battalion headquarters. Gordon and Whittingham both died of wounds around midnight and were buried with full military honours at a funeral service in Reninghelst Military Cemetary, 10 km south west of Ypres, two days later. Lt Col Compton also later died of his wounds on 7 Jul at Etaples hospital.

Two fellow officers paid tribute to Gordon:

“He was one of the bravest men I have ever met out here and his sense of duty in returning to the front soon after his recent operation filled us all with the deepest admiration. He was always so merry and bright and a great favorite with us all”

”His parting from us has caused a deep cloud over the battalion, because he was one of the best and one we could ill afford to lose”

Des

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Philip Wilson

post-48147-1252334437.jpg

Des - Thanks for the info on Captain Gordon - much appreciated.

Here is photograph of the Officers of the 12th Royal Fusiliers. My grandfather Captain J.V.Wilson, is sitting third from the right in the front row. Unfortunately there are no names or dates attached to any of my grandfather's WW1 photos.

I believe the Medical Officer wearing shorts is likely to be Whittingham, in which case the CO could well be Lt.Colonel Compton.

Those with the interest in the 12th RF are you are able to help me put names to faces please?

Philip

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Philip Wilson
Phil,

Nice photo - have a couple of pictures of Gerard Gordon but no obvious matches to group. MO is definitely Clive Whittingham - see link below

http://www.archives.gla.ac.uk/honour/biog.php?bid=2968

Des

Des

Thanks for confirming Whittingham and for providing the link - here he is on Horseback must have been taken on the same day - wearing shorts.

post-48147-1252405646.jpg

I have a number of group photos for the 12th Bn.RF. both Officers and men here - are you prepared to send me a copy of your photo of Gordon?

Best wishes

Philip

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DesK161

Phil.

Captain Gordon taken from The Sphere of 4 Aug 1917

post-13993-1252491863.jpg

Des

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Philip Wilson

Des

Thanks for the photo of Captain Gordon - what I have here are mainly photos of the Officers and men of A Company 12th Royal Fusiliers. No obvious match as yet.

Philip

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BarryF
Those with the interest in the 12th RF are you are able to help me put names to faces please?

Philip

Hello Philip,

I have just returned from the National Archives on what I hope is the last leg of rebuilding the Roll of the 12th Battalion Royal Fusiliers. More about that later.

On my return this evening I spotted with great interest your posts regarding your grandfather,Captain J V Wilson. Having lived with this 12RF research for more years than I care to remember, his name and 12RF service is very familiar to me. I think I have a notice of his death in March 1965. I recall he was known as "Tug".

I have a number of images of 12RF officers and men but I had not seen the one you posted. I would have hoped to recognise some but I can only positively ID the MO. I'll have a closer look tomorrow and compare with other images.

I very much hope that we can exchange some information and photographs. To that end I'll send you my email address.

Regards, Barry

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Philip Wilson

post-48147-1254344867.jpg

Barry

Thank you more than happy to do so - here is the 12th Royal Fusiliers Orderly Room Staff - Pirbright - late August 1915 ?

Best wishes

Philip

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BarryF

Thanks very much, Philip.

Yes - 12RF were at Pirbright from 29th June until 1st September 1915. I haven't seen 12RF men wearing belts such as those before. I am comparing the faces with the images I have of men known to be 12RF but so far no luck. I have an image of an RF RSM and he looks very, very much like the gentleman on the right (as we view).

Can you make out what it says on the left of the board?

Barry

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