J. Cassidy. India.

[Cassidy Medals]

Hi

 

I have this photo of J. Cassidy, serving in India. I'm uncertain of the period perhaps 1900 - 1918?

 

There were three other postcards with this one, all scenes from Dalhousie, India.  

 

I'm trying to work out what unit Cassidy was with and ultimately who he might be? (IE. Regimental No.)

 

Can anyone assist?

 

Thanks in Advance

Gaz

[FROGSMILE]

There’s nothing visible on his uniform to identify his regiment.  In the photo he appears to be the driver of a unit’s so-called Maltese Cart, which was intended as a runabout for the officers‘ mess.  It implies that he might have been a member of his unit’s Transport Section.  You would need better photos or documents to identify his regiment.

Edited 14 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Cassidy Medals]

Thanks FROGSMILE.... Yes I agree it's a bummer that soldiers didn't put more details on the back of postcards....like their Regimental details.....and/or unit.

This is a long shot is there any where I can find a list of British units that were stationed at Dalhousie?

Perhaps I can create a short list of posibilities and see what I can come up with? 

 

Cheers

Gaz 

[HTSCF Fareham]

Tried my best to enlarge, but don't think that this will help....

 

[Cassidy Medals]

I need to get a magnifying glass......does he have Corporal Stripes??

 

Gaz

[HTSCF Fareham]

That's what I was thinking.

[Steven Broomfield]

Officers' Mess Corporal?

[Bob Davies]

On 14/06/2020 at 02:51, Cassidy Medals said:

I have this photo of J. Cassidy, serving in India. I'm uncertain of the period perhaps 1900 - 1918?

 

There were three other postcards with this one, all scenes from Dalhousie, India.  

Hi Gaz, from what I can work out the 3rd Lahore Division was based at Dalihouse 1914, before being sent to France in September 1914.  That is still a lot of men. Narrowing it down a little, we have;1st Battalion Connaught Rangers (870 odd men there I would think) who I am sure went from India to France.Cassidy is an Irish name but that may not necessarily be a link to the Connaught Rangers. There are a few more Regiments but I need to look into them a bit more. Best of luck on this one, regards, Bob. PS; The Long Long Trail may help here too?

Edited 21 June , 2020 by Bob Davies
to add a ps.

[Cassidy Medals]

Thanks Bob.......that gives me plenty to trawl through......also the CWGC lists 42 x British Soldiers buried at the Dalhousie Military Cemetery from 1914-1920.

Units as follows; 

·         2^nd / 4^th BN Dorsetshire Regt                                       2

·         2^nd / 6^th BN Royal Sussex Regt                                   4

·         1^st BN Kent Cyclist BN                                                14

·         1^st / 4^th BN Royal West Surrey Regt                           9

·         2^nd /4^th BN Duke of Cornwall’s Light Infantry              3

·         1^st BN Welch Regt                                                      1

·         1^st Garrison BN Royal Scots Fusiliers                        2

·         2^nd BN The Buffs (East Kent Regt)                             2

·         25^th BN London Regt (Cyclists)                                  1

·         3^rd Div Ammo Column, Royal Field Artillery                1

·         1^st Hants Battery, Royal Field Artillery                        1

·         2^nd BN Royal West Kent Regt                                    1             

·         1^st / 5^th BN Devonshire Regt                                      1

 

      That should keep me busy for awhile.

      Cheers

      Gaz

  

 

Edited 22 June , 2020 by Cassidy Medals

[FROGSMILE]

22 hours ago, Cassidy Medals said:

I need to get a magnifying glass......does he have Corporal Stripes??

 

Gaz

Yes, he is a corporal and his waistbelt is from the 1903 Bandolier Equipment set, which was a common issue to the Territorial Force units sent to take up garrison duty in India.  Unfortunately there’s still no indication of unit, which would sometimes be revealed by particular pagri folds, cloth patches, metal badges, or plumes on the side.

Edited 22 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Cassidy Medals]

Thanks Frogsmile for passing on your knowledge.....greatly appreciated.

 

Based on the waistbelt I will assume the timeframe of photo is somewhere between 1903 - 1920.

 

We have also established that he has stripes on his uniform, so his rank at the time was Corporal or Bombadier? can you tell the difference from the stripes or uniform if he was Artillery??

 

There were 32 x Regular Army Battalions in India prior to WW1, they were exchanged with 23 x Territorial Army Battalions late in 1914.

I have a list of the TA Battalions that arrived in India late in 1914.  

 

Then during WW1 there were 19-20 Garrison Battalions raised and sent to India to relieve the Territorial Army Battalions.

I have a list of the Garrison Battalions that were in India in 1919. Do you know if the Garrison Battalions were issued the same type of waistbelt?

 

Given that the 32 x Regular Army battalions were sent to WW1 the majority will have MIC.

Also given that service in India during WW1 entitled a soldier to a British War Medal.  Will these awards also be detailed via MIC?

 

There are approx 1,000 MIC for soldiers with surname Cassidy's during WW1...... so the MIC might assist.

Although some records of service no longer exist.........so pinpointing service in India may prove difficult.......

Yes it is a needle in a haystack......... but kind of fun trying to piece together who it might be.  

 

Thanks to everyone for your input with this so far.......all your snippets of information are assisting me to build a bigger picture......so keep those snippets coming!! 

 

Cheers for now

Gaz

 

   

   

[Steven Broomfield]

One medal might be worth investigating, if only to discount him (if you see what I mean).

 

The Territorial Force War Medal was awarded to Territorials who were members of the Territorial Force at the outbreak of war (there were other qualifying factors, too), who volunteered to serve overseas, but who were not eligible for the 1914 or 1914-15 Star. This resulted in a lot being awarded to TF soldiers who served in India. TFWM Wiki

 

I have no idea how to search the rolls, but it might be worth a look, just in case he was eligible; as I said, it might be a negative, but who knows?

[Cassidy Medals]

Hi Steven........great suggestion.......I did a google search and stumbled across a TFWM database at Ancestry.com...........the Ancestry database states that there are 34,225 records......wikipedia states that 33,944 medals were awarded........so I'm thinking it's a complete roll.

 

Unfortunately and unbelieveably there were no Cassidy's listed on the roll.......

 

So back to the drawing board.

 

Cheers

Gaz

 

[archangel9]

The Delhi Durbar 1911 medal rolls would be worth a look too. I checked the Connaught Rangers on the roll for your man and no match there. Also checked the 1st Bn Connaught Rangers 1911 census on which there were 3 x Cassidy but none with initial J. 

[Bob Davies]

On 23/06/2020 at 03:08, Cassidy Medals said:

Thanks to everyone for your input with this so far.......all your snippets of information are assisting me to build a bigger picture......so keep those snippets coming!! 

Hi Gaz and all, having done a bit more reading I am now learning something about the Lahore Division and the army in India. It would seem that the brigades in the division were dispersed over the Punjab in several locations. So far I have the locations as Ferozepore 7th Brigade. Jullundur 8th Brigade. Sirhind 9th Brigade. Then, I have to presume the Headquarters at Dalhousie where Cpl J Cassidy is pictured. So it would make scene that he is with the HQ and the units that make it up. Who these are I do not know as yet. With luck some one will see this and have the , or another answer. Regards, Bob. The LLTrail helps a lot :-)

 

[Cassidy Medals]

13 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Hi Gaz and all, having done a bit more reading I am now learning something about the Lahore Division and the army in India. It would seem that the brigades in the division were dispersed over the Punjab in several locations. So far I have the locations as Ferozepore 7th Brigade. Jullundur 8th Brigade. Sirhind 9th Brigade. Then, I have to presume the Headquarters at Dalhousie where Cpl J Cassidy is pictured. So it would make scene that he is with the HQ and the units that make it up. Who these are I do not know as yet. With luck some one will see this and have the , or another answer. Regards, Bob. The LLTrail helps a lot :-)

 

Hi Bob.......that's what i like about researching ...... you never really know where the search may take you.......I've read a little about the Lahore Division......but not enough to determine what units were there........it makes sense though CPL Cassidy was with the HQ elements and one of his roles was duty driver....all be it a horse and buggy.

Unfortunately the postcards are mint and have no stamp or datemark on them....to give an indication of the year.......they have nothing written on them apart from his name.... J. Cassidy....in pencil. If you happen to come across units at Dalhousie I'd be interested to receive a list. 

 

Enjoy your day.

Gaz   

[Cassidy Medals]

4 hours ago, archangel9 said:

The Delhi Durbar 1911 medal rolls would be worth a look too. I checked the Connaught Rangers on the roll for your man and no match there. Also checked the 1st Bn Connaught Rangers 1911 census on which there were 3 x Cassidy but none with initial J. 

Hi Archangel9........great suggestion.........which I hadn't even thought of........I found a Delhi Durbar 1911 medal Roll on Forces War Records....but alas no Cassidy's were listed. It seems he is an elusive character. I'm thinking that perhaps i should compile a list of J. Cassidy's from the MIC roll who were CPL or above and see how many I end up with. Then see if any of their records exist to determine if they served in India....... and see if i can narrow it down.

I'll probably do this over the weekend......and post the list here.....there are a couple of hundred J Cassidys...but perhaps 20-30 CPL or above.......so this might be manageable. I can forecast that soldiers who were KIA or DOW might be difficult to trace....but I also found that Ancestry.com has the WW1 War medals rolls which provides snippets re soldiers units, so this may assist too. I've got nothing to loose.....so here goes nothing.

 

Thanks again for your input...greatly appreciated. 

Gaz

[Bob Davies]

21 hours ago, Cassidy Medals said:

.....that's what i like about researching ...... you never really know where the search may take you......

Hi Gaz and all, just to keep you going there is a great site called 25th County of London Cyclist Battalion with lots of pictures of India, Dalhousie was mentioned but I'm buggered if I can find it again. Another interesting read is  A FEW STATIONS IN INDIA. By MRS. H. V. BAGSHA WE.https://militaryhealth.bmj.com/content/jramc/46/3/214.full.pdfOnly a short article but it gives another view on life in India including a mention of Dalhousie although written in 1927 I would think very little had changed in the previous 20 years. One more for you, some years back on here in India & Asia Pacific @ddycher was asking about Mankote barracks, Dalhousie Hill Station, maybe he will see this and shed some light? Regards, Bob. http://www.25thlondon.com/index.htm

[Bob Davies]

On 24/06/2020 at 23:12, Cassidy Medals said:

If you happen to come across units at Dalhousie I'd be interested to receive a list.

Hi Gaz and all, further reading leads me to believe that the Jullundur 8th infantry Brigade was based at Dalhousie in 1914. So from The long long trail and other sites/books the 1st Manchester Regiment is mentioned as being part of the Jullundur Brigade also the 2nd Queens own Royal West Kent regiment in 1914. Regards, Bob.

 

[FROGSMILE]

The khaki drill jacket (KD) that he wears has been tailored by the bazaar ‘durzi’ (native tailor) to have skirt pockets added.  The issue pattern just had chest pockets.  I forgot to mention that the waist belt he wears was also issued to the ‘transport section’ of infantry battalions, even when the rest of the battalion was provided with 1908 cotton web equipment.  So that would fit with his apparent responsibility for the Maltese Cart of the officers’ mess.  All-in-all then it’s not impossible that he’s from a regular army unit, although his general appearance (lack of a smart turnout) does not suggest that, even from a distance.

Edited 26 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Cassidy Medals]

9 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

Hi Gaz and all, further reading leads me to believe that the Jullundur 8th infantry Brigade was based at Dalhousie in 1914. So from The long long trail and other sites/books the 1st Manchester Regiment is mentioned as being part of the Jullundur Brigade also the 2nd Queens own Royal West Kent regiment in 1914. Regards, Bob.

 

Hi Bob.... thanks for your messages.....I've been doing a little bit of reading homework myself ........ and some J. Cassidy research.

I managed to obtain a list of J. Cassidy's serving overseas in 1911..... all Regular Army soldiers, but no Corporal's amongst them.  

I have researched a number of CPL J. Cassidy's from MIC that seemed to fit the bill......uno TA Unit in India during WW1.....most were in India but either before 1903 or hadn't been promoted to CPL whilst in India. So that seems to count them all out. Some men didn't have records so that's a little annoying.

 

I am wondering if there are any Nominal Rolls available for the Garrison Battalions that served in India during WW1?  Perhaps passenger lists like can be found for Australian, Canadian and US Forces during WW1? Perhaps I might find him on one of these lists?

 

The hunt continues.

 

Regards

Gaz

[Cassidy Medals]

7 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The khaki drill jacket (KD) that he wears has been tailored by the bazaar ‘durzi’ (native tailor) to have skirt pockets added.  The issue pattern just had chest pockets.  I forgot to mention that the waist belt he wears was also issued to the ‘transport section’ of infantry battalions, even when the rest of the battalion was provided with 1908 cotton web equipment.  So that would fit with his apparent responsibility for the Maltese Cart of the officers’ mess.  All-in-all then it’s not impossible that he’s from a regular army unit, although his general appearance (lack of a smart turnout) does not suggest that, even from a distance.

Hi Frogsmile....thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me....greatly appreciated. I feel that each snippet of information puts me one step closer to identifying who he is. 

 

Cheers

Gaz

 

 

  

 

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, Cassidy Medals said:

Hi Frogsmile....thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me....greatly appreciated. I feel that each snippet of information puts me one step closer to identifying who he is. 

 

Cheers

Gaz

 

 

  

 

I was glad to contribute a little, but recognise that your search is a difficult one.  
 

Unfortunately the lowest ranks can be very difficult to trace as they were not infrequently temporary, especially in areas with low level responsibility.  For example a Lance Corporal might be made Acting Corporal while working in, or for an officers’ mess (usually a rotational thing).  Yet his substantive rank remained Private and so unless promoted to substantive Corporal nothing would have appeared on his record.  
 

Such temporary roles were typically given to old soldiers whose canny resourcefulness might be legendary, but whose discipline left something to be desired.  If such a man he would be difficult to track down.

Edited 27 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

10 hours ago, Cassidy Medals said:

I am wondering if there are any Nominal Rolls available for the Garrison Battalions that served in India during WW1? 

I am not aware of any lists as such. I have found the monthly Army list for July 1914 attached is a picture of the required page, which tells us from the horses mouth, who was part of the Lahore Division. The army lists are found here; https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120379498

[ddycher]

Bob

 

My interest in Dalhousie is with respect to the Devonshire Regt. It was the hill station that the 4th, 5th and 6th Devons used before going off to other theatres. Quick check on the Devon rolls didnt yield any J. Cassidy I’m afraid.

 

Regards

Dave