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TEW

ID of this RAMC officer.

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TEW

Not a good photo to go on I know.

 

A few non-proved facts;

Photo taken at Ouderdom ADS - April 1918 - 28th Field ambulance.

Led to believe photo has been compared to existing building and that others claim it is the ADS farm at Ouderdom

 

28 FA was there from 17th to 25th April. Sheet 28 G.30.c.40.95.

 

CO of 28th FA at the time was Lt. Col. Thomas Ernest Hardy DSO (Gazetted Jan 17), bar to DSO (Gazetted Sept 18). TEH born 1880 so would be 48 if the facts are correct.

 

20200612_121708.jpg.e4f81cfe551bc33a4a8c56e4c07a1f3d.jpg

Cropped photo from Samilhistory.com.

Probably captioned with incorrect ID.

 

Man in photo is a Lt. Col.?

Has a ribbon, could be DSO?

Could be 48?

Therefore is Thomas Ernest Hardy?

Thanks

TEW

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Andrew Upton
20 minutes ago, TEW said:

Man in photo is a Lt. Col.?

Has a ribbon, could be DSO?

Could be 48?

Therefore is Thomas Ernest Hardy?

 

 

The man in the photo has cuff rank confirming he was Lieutenant-Colonel when the photo was taken, and what's visible of the ribbon seems a good match for how orthochromatic film typically renders the blue-red-blue stripes of the DSO. The apparent age would also fit to my eye. I think you have a very good candidate in Thomas Ernest Hardy...

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TEW

Thanks, this is one part of a quite complicated on forum topic. Hopefully this is one part solved.

Thanks again.

TEW

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ajsmith
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, TEW said:

TEH born 1880 so would be 48 if the facts are correct

He'd be 38 if the photo was taken in 1918

Edited by ajsmith

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Skipman

That appears to be Lt. Col R N Woodsend Click

 

Mike

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TEW

.RN Woodsend seems to have been a Captain throughout. Plus Woodsend is far too young

 

woodsend.png.42365e4f25cd7e25f52b13fb72b2a7b7.png

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

Plus, no mention of Woodsend in any diary I've checked so far (quite a few!). The failing part of the story so far is that Woodsend was either the CO of a field ambulance or of a CCS. I don't see that as likely given his rank other than possibly Temp I/C.

TEW

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Skipman
Posted (edited)

Is it just a coincedence that there is a Lt-Col Thomas Ernest Harty in 28 Fd Amb Click

 

Mike

Edited by Skipman

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davidbohl
Posted (edited)

Harty died in S.A 1955

From the BNA

Published: Tuesday 03 May 1955
Newspaper: Dundee Courier

 

Dave

 

Screenshot 2020-06-12 at 14.46.19.png

 

And marriage 1922

382469493_Screenshot2020-06-12at18_38_14.png.ff2734da471e064a2922a393e6e4e4ac.png

 

 

Edited by davidbohl
marriage

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TEW
Posted (edited)

Mike, I noticed his MIC states 28th FA plus his signature is all over the war diary. This is only part of the bigger story regarding a wounded baboon.

So far the variables are the injury took place in either Sept 1917 or April 1918.

Woodsend amputated the leg and sent the baboon to CCS.

28th FA ran the ADS for the baboon's division in 1918.

No link so far for Woodsend with any FA.

Much here to delve into but clearing up the officer's ID is a start.

 

Dave, not seen that before, I wonder if links with SA Brigade in WWI is relevant to place of death.

TEW

 

These are some things I never thought I'd be saying on forum!

Edited by TEW

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davidbohl

Another potted history of Jackie the Baboon https://www.samvoint.org/wars/jackie-the-baboon

 

Harty was a bit of a runner in Bengal in 1909 from the BNA

 

Dave536819480_Screenshot2020-06-12at17_17_43.png.aa4d7917de5ad2b951600f7c109c6952.png

 

 

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Skipman

If it helps, on FindMyPast The Medical Register for 1913 has a Robert Noel Woodsend. The Manor, E. Bridgeford, Notts.Date and Place of Registration 1909, May 29. E. Qualifications Mem. R. Coll. Surg. Eng. 1909. Lic. R. Coll. Phys. Lond. 1909. Click

 

Mike

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TEW

It's all helping build up a picture, thanks.

 

Establishing Woodsend's role is proving difficult. I've read his description of the event but can't tie him down as being with an FA and a particular dressing station. He performed the surgery and then evacuated the casualty to CCS.

 

Looked at 9/ADMS plus the 3 FAs of the division, no Woodsend! Could he have been a battalion MO and performed surgery at an RAP, seems unlikely to me.

 

Then there's the date discrepancies, either Sept 17 or April 18 for the event. Both annoyingly not far geographically apart.

 

IF photo was taken at 28 FA ADS Ouderdom Apr 18 (seems more likely now) is this where surgery was performed by the not mentioned Woodsend?

 

Under normal circumstances a front line OR would not be taking a wounded comrade back to an ADS and asking for help but the circumstances are not that normal. The baboon was the SA mascot so perhaps regulations were waived. However, again no official mention of the mascot being wounded found so far. Most SA diaries for Apr 18 are missing though.

 

Then, if surgery took place at the ADS and then evacuated to CCS why the photo of a leg amputated baboon back at the ADS looking otherwise healthy. ADS was quite short lived and had to move.

TEW

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davidbohl
Posted (edited)

Will this clip narrow it down, dated 7th Nov 1918 and states the baboon was injured on "Kemmel Hill this year"

Dave

 

From the BNA

Published: Thursday 07 November 1918
Newspaper: Nottingham Journal

1427713208_Screenshot2020-06-12at19_55_37.png.cf11cd04b299e33dd061db39e31500f6.png

 

 

Injury happened on 17th April 1918

 

Published: Friday 25 October 1918
Newspaper: Loughborough Echo

 

2027861616_Screenshot2020-06-12at20_04_30.png.fdbdd5861d748ca5f4cbbcc8e1d6046b.png

Edited by davidbohl

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TEW

David,

I noticed hits with BNA but don't have a subscription.

 

The date 17/4/18 is a good result plus another source puts them near La Clytte for the injury. The divisional ADS closed at La Clytte and re-opened at Ouderdom on the 17th.

 

I've only just backtracked and realised I wrote 'Hardy' when it should read 'Harty'. Plus my maths went wrong so man in photo is 38? looks older to me, slight worry.

 

TEW

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Andrew Upton
2 hours ago, TEW said:

...Plus my maths went wrong so man in photo is 38? looks older to me, slight worry...

 

Life back then tended to age people prematurely, so looking a little older to what we might expect nowadays is quite normal.

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Madmeg
Posted (edited)

another South african link for you... https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW19190129.2.170.8?items_per_page=10&query=jackie+baboon&snippet=true - the baboon appeared in a victory parade with the South African guns. But I just reread the above newspaper snippet and Pte Marr was a South African so that makes sense.

 

Looks like he retired to SA? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR29-5LM?i=1695&cc=2063749&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKDCB-JD3  occupation listed in 1922 as "farmer"

 

Edited by Madmeg

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Madmeg
Posted (edited)

Woodsend- biograpghy on find a grave only says Captain. 1911 is shown as a MET BBS (whatever that is!- metropoliton ? something something) 

BNA gives a number of hits for RN Woodsend who was living in Catterick by the 1930s

 

A thought- could it be that Capt Woodsend performed the operation but C/O Harty got in on the act when it came to the photo? Such things have been known to happen before :-). Therefore the man who was credited with the operation was not the man in the photo- in fact perhaps if he was serving in a medical facility he was not available at wherever the photo was taken?

 

I see from the write up on the SA site above that jackie "sat up and saluted the commanding officer" at hospital- that would probably be TE Harty? fascinating story.

 

Another thought- Jackie had a regimental number- 4927- I've tried a few searches at FMP but its not being very helpful - I've also tried the military medical records (which it DOESN'T seem to search under the military category), but again no luck- but from the write up there should actually be a medical file and associated paperwork...... somewhere.

Edited by Madmeg
additional info

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davidbohl

Here's the makeup of Dr R.N.Woodsend's family at his dads funeral in Nottingham 1933, still no signs of a later photie of him.

Dave

 

From the BNA

Published: Saturday 29 July 1933
Newspaper: Nottingham Evening Post

909037137_Screenshot2020-06-13at13_17_08.png.9db3975ce865452308bfe82e348949c9.png

 

2093753482_Screenshot2020-06-13at13_15_19.png.50890be65513f367985c24356dd7400e.png

358769073_Screenshot2020-06-13at13_15_42.png.ca67a646f01701ccccc0481c302aacee.png

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Skipman

I think this is the service record of Woodsend's son, it might have useful info? Click

 

Mike

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