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Remembered Today:

Dating military trench art


Stacie Macfadyen

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I'm reaching out to you in hopes of dating a military trench art cartridge that I believe was made in 1917.  The repose is the Cross of Lorraine.  I've done some research but I am unfamiliar with military terminology and respect your interests and expertise to provide information.  I hope you forgive any deficiencies in my historical knowledge or errors I've made interpreting military specifications.  I think the cartridge is either French or German. 

Headstamp markings:

Top:  75 DE C
Bottom:  H 883L 17 H
75 =  75 mm cartridge 
DE =  Hugo Schneider, Werk Leipzig, Germany.  (Manufacturer?)
C =  I think this is what's loaded in the cartridge
H = Hirtenberger Patronen, Austria. (Foundary location?)
883L = lot#?  Stamping looks like it was done at different times. Maybe the cartridge was used more than once. 
17 = 1917

 

20200601_133225.jpg

20200601_173811.jpg

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Although it bears a 17 stamp it doesn't necessarily mean the artistry applied to it (very nice by the way) was performed then. I own very few bits of trench art but have read that quite a lot was produced post war by locals (out of genuine surplus) to supply the early battlefield tourists/pilgrims yearning for a souvenir. I don't doubt that many pieces were produced by servicemen but I wouldn't know how to tell.

 

Simon

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I agree, the cartridge might have been made in 1917 but the artwork is likely post war.  And I also read about after war art made from military items like you mentioned.   I like arts and craft period art and I was drawn to this piece.

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I agree, would look lovely in my sisters arts and crafts house, (but I’d prefer it in mine).

 

Simon

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Thank you peregrinvs.  I started my research with the headstamp and quickly spun in circles.   I then identified the double cross and realized the cartridge and symbol were likely French so sought out help.  I'm excited to learn of its French origin. 

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The theme also is post war (re-annexation of Alsace Lorraine by France).

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  • 2 months later...

Obviously German WW1, appear to be cartridge cases for the 77mm field gun - The German Army used two models, c96nA and m1916. These were the standard german field guns through the war and used by the field artillery regiments attached to every infantry division.

 

Like the art in the initial post, these appear to have been worked into trench art in the decade immediately after the war for the battlefield tourist market, wartime trench art being generally much simpler in style. Production could be either in Belgium or France.

Cheers

Ross

 

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Nice matching pair Hutch, welcome to the forum

 

The casings were produced for the 77mm shell fired from the German 7.7 FK nA, I'll have a go at the markings -

 

St (stark) - denotes the case was strengthened ie the walls a thicker

36 - lot number

March 1917 - date of manufacture

HL - Haniel Luege Dusseldorf (brass factory)

25 - lot number

G - inspection mark

 

St - as above 

35 - as above

August 1909? - as above

Crown over Ke - inspection mark

Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe ? - manufacturer?

 

 

J

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HL25 = inspected and passed by inspector 25 at the Hauptlaboratorium, Ingolstadt, Bavaria.

 

G = manufactured by Württembergische Metallwarenfabrik, Geisslingen. Baden-Wurttenberg.

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8 minutes ago, peregrinvs said:

HL25 = inspected and passed by inspector 25 at the Hauptlaboratorium, Ingolstadt, Bavaria.

 

G = manufactured by Württembergische Metallwarenfabrik, Geisslingen. Baden-Wurttenberg.

 

yee  knows too much ...... well more than I do :)

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50 minutes ago, peregrinvs said:

HL25 = inspected and passed by inspector 25 at the Hauptlaboratorium, Ingolstadt, Bavaria.

 

G = manufactured by Württembergische Metallwarenfabrik, Geisslingen. Baden-Wurttenberg.

Thank you all so much x

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  • 3 months later...

Two contribution , one on the French "lost provinces" , the second on trench art.

 

1. The Lorraine cross was the symbol of nationalist groups to protest against  the annexion of Alsace and a part of Lorraine by Germany  between 1871 and 1918 (47  years).

 This symbol of "loosen provinces" was largely used with Maurice Barres to celebrate the liberation and come back to France in 1918. For german nationalist it was supposed to be a '"re-annexion" .

During WW2, Alsace and Lothringen were again reannexed during 5 "hard" years  of nazi rule and former french citizen were incorpored in the WH and send to Russia, where a lot of them dead and other stay in soviet prisonner camps in Tambow ...

My father in law , from Sarreguemines  ( then sixteen jahr old) was obliged to escape Lothringen to Swizzerland to avoid incorporation in HJ and then in WH. 

During WW2, the Lorraine cross became the symbol of Free French under de Gaulle ...and after WW 2 the symbol of gaullist political movment. 

2. The shells where broadly used on french side for trench  art. German ones but also french (mainly 75) shells even if they vere supposed to be reloded once or twice.

On german side the situation was more complicated .

Due to schortage of copper and messing/ laiton  :

- private use of schells for trench art  was prohibited ,

- monney was given to soldiers  to collect brass and copper equipment 

- use of ersazts material ( iron and zink , unusuable for trench art)  was developped. 

For these reasons, german trench art is focused in wood and bones artefacts .

Yours sincerely

Gabelou

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