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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Great War British sailor?


Hallibag

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I was just wondering what the membership thinks about this portrait I picked up today in a thrift shop. Does it date to the Great War period, or earlier? I’ve been trying to research the sailor’s uniform but have yet to find a perfect match. Thanks!

D1122207-24C3-42AE-82C4-CA27E6550B63.jpeg

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I have looked at this photo a few times in the past 24 hrs, & I really dont know exactly what to say about it.

 

I have a huge number of 1WW period RPPC's & this one does not look like a 'normal' studio period photo to me, but a couple observations that strike me --- first off, it has been colourized in some way & it does not appear to me to be hand tinted similar to a rating's photo I posted earlier in my topic on Sennet Hats.  Might it have been computer colourized?

 

I feel it is a 1WW period photo, the uniform is correct for the period, but I have some reservation on his pants.  They just dont look right to me, but that could be the way the photo has been photographed (appears to be at a slant), they should be more 'baggier', more full in the leg.

 

Cap ribbon is HMS Vivid, even that does not look correct to me, but again, it could be retouched in some way. Vivid was the depot\base at Devonport, he looks quite young, perhaps just completed Boy's training & likely awaiting a sea draft at Vivid.

 

Could it be an actor dressed for a part? possibly, I feel that possibility has to be considered.

 

However, just my observations, perhaps someone will come along with more thoughts\opinions....

 

& Thanks for posting,

Bryan

 

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I would go with Bryan here that he is possibly dressed up as an actor. His trousers look more an olive green than navy blue. Also his collar appears to have a thick white boarder stripe rather than the 3 of the standardised matelots collar and there does not appear to be a branch badge on his upper right arm. Other observations are that a sailor in his No 1 uniform would have worn a black silk ribbon behind the white lanyard and also I don’t think that sailors tunic had a waist pocket that this appears to have.

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I had picked up on his collar stripes as well, but as I thought the focus might be somewhat fuzzy kind of blending the 3 stripes into one, also tried enlarging it to see if any separation, that only made the resolution worse, but yes, it could well be a single broad stripe.

 

I tried to make out the silk & thought I saw an outline of it on his left chest beneath his lanyard(which is being worn correctly in the style of the period) but its too fuzzy to make out clearly.  His tunic seems Ok to me tho & it may be legit.

The white object in his pants could just be tucked into them, a handkerchief perhaps, there may or may not be a pocket there, of course there would not be in regulation trousers. & I have never seen a rating with a handkerchief in his waistband.

The pants in any rate dont seem correct to me so I kind of discounted the handkerchief.

 

Also the cap ribbon does not seem to be embroidered to me, I think the lettering has been painted on.

 

Good looking young man tho, wonder if he survived 1WW?

 

Best....Bryan

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Thank you for the comments! I believe the sailor’s face is based on a photograph, but the remainder of his body is a painting. I’m attaching a few new photos with better colour, taken from a better angle to reduce distortion. Also, note the age that’s apparent on the back of the portrait - this is an old picture.  
 

 

FCB9B1FA-2C14-4A52-925F-E93613A48174.jpeg

31C21A82-A9F0-4CDA-9A83-F1DBDDDED7E7.jpeg

353CFFB8-39B5-42B8-9C1E-106AA1CCAFFF.jpeg

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Forgot to mention - this isn’t a small postcard-size picture, but a fairly large portrait, measuring 15” tall by 11” wide, not including the frame. Also, this is a tough thing to photograph well because of reflections on the glass, and the fact that it could use a good cleaning, inside and out.

Edited by Hallibag
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One more thing. I just noticed this photo, posted by Themonsstar in the Sennet straw hat discussion, as post number 32 in the thread. Similar handkerchief at the waist?

5F3C3934-2679-4308-9ED1-9F6E1FB641E7.jpeg

Edited by Hallibag
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Better photo, thanks for posting. I am certain he is wearing a silk around his neck, it is clearer in the photo now.

 

I had missed the handkerchief in the sennet hat photo, think just tucked into waistband.

It's an older photo, 19th C, the frock was tucked into the pants then & buttoned in front.

 

Best....Bryan 

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Just now, RNCVR said:It's an older photo, 19th C, the frock was tucked into the pants then & buttoned in front.

Thank you, Bryan. So, pre WW1, then. 1890’s, I guess?

 

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23 minutes ago, Hallibag said:

Forgot to mention - this isn’t a small postcard-size picture, but a fairly large portrait, measuring 15” tall by 11” wide, not including the frame. Also, this is a tough thing to photograph well because of reflections on the glass, and the fact that it could use a good cleaning, inside and out.

 

Be really really careful if you attempt to clean the surface of the photo, it might be best to enquire about having that done by a pro or someone who knows what she/he is doing!

It's a very nice image, you would not want to damage it!

I had one similar yrs ago, will post when I get to my laptop, on phone now.

 

 

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Just now, Hallibag said:

 

Yes, I would estimate possibly late 1880's early to mid1890's.  It took a bit of  time for the frock worn over the pants to take effect for the ratings. I have several RPPC's showing the old style frock & they are all Victorian period.

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Here is the photo I mentioned Post 10 above, is approx the same size as your Halli, I dont have a shot of the frame in my data base unfortunately. When I got it it was quite dirty, very dusty & I could barely make out the image under the glass, the reverse was similar to yours as well, with as I recall a wood backing. I felt it had real potential & I liked it, it also was accompanied by his medals.  The photo itself was in very good condition, & I had it cleaned at a frame shop I had dealt with in past, but kept the original frame as it was worth saving.

It would date from the pre 1WW period circa 1910, he entered RN around turn of C, & was demobilized with free discharge at war's end upon the reduction of the RN.

 

Gone to a new home now tho......

 

Best....Bryan

Davis photo.JPG

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Beautiful photo, Bryan! Thank you for letting me see it.


I think I’ll leave my picture as it is for now, but will be very careful when the time comes to have it cleaned. The picture itself looks fairly stable but the red velvet around the edges is probably very fragile.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave
 

 

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It does look very nice, I am certain the rating(or possibly actor) in the photo was very happy with it, its really unfortunate you will never know who he is!

 

Thanks, been an interesting post!

Bryan

 

I will attach a photo sent to me recently by the current owner who I have kept in touch with, shows the original frame & a frame I made up of his medals & 1WW period insignia.

Davisorigframe.jpg

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Apologies for citing Wikipedia, but just for information about the date range:

HMS VIVID was the Navy barracks commissioned in 1890 and used as a training unit until 1914; HMS VIVID (1891) was an iron screw yacht purchased from civilian service in 1891, where she had been named Capercailzie. She became the Devonport base ship in 1892 and was sold in 1912. VIVID splintered into several different shore establisments in the course of the war.

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Thanks, seaJane. So, sometime between 1890 and 1914 and, considering what RNCVR has said about the uniform, probably towards the earlier end of that date range.

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