BIFFO Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 I have a welsh man THOMAS HENRY JENKINS 8074 2nd Batt Welsh Reg joined the prior to 1910 deserted caught and court martial I think 1910 how could you be convicted and presumable sentenced ? as a regular soldier he went to France wiith the 2nd batt 13th August 1914 and unfortunately KIA 25 November 1914 I have looked on a well know research site but cannot find a mention in disciplinary or desertion is there a way of finding out where,when and what he did ? I have never researched a deserter so dont know where to looksee Biffo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Just a snippet from the Merthyr Express of 5th November 1910; "At an occasional court, on Monday. Thomas Henry Jenkins was charged with being a deserter from the 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment. He pleaded guilty, and was remanded to await an escort." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Try looking in files WO86/57 and 58, which are District Courts-Martial Registers, or in WO84/6, Courts Martial Charge Books, for around 1910. They are not available online as far as I know, and it is most unlikely that they will tell you anything about the trials other than charge, verdict and sentence. If you want to look at these files, you will have to visit Kew when it reopens. Good luck! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIFFO Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Thank you both for your help,now its puzzling ok he was court marshaled 1910,yet I have him in 1911 welsh census correct name,right age,living with right mother/father,would they have drummed him out after a short sentence ? IPT is that all it says ? Biffo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Could the CM be an aside to him living at home in 1911, could he have come to the end of his terms of engagement and thus be home anyway? I'm not completely sure at what level a Court Martial would be instigated as opposed to a major roasting 'in-house' so to speak. I partially researched a soldier who received 2 weeks FP1 for desertion, so not by any means would a man automatically receive anything like capital punishment. In his case there appears to have been a tragic cause for his absence, and possibly a tragic end. Your man could well have been a reservist recalled in 1914. Caveat, I've been in the sun a long time in the company of H.P. Bulmer Esq. so the above may not even make sense. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 8026 joined on 23rd September 1903 8160 Joined on 10th Feb 1904 https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2012/12/welsh-regiment-1st-and-2nd-battalions.html?m=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Those dates would indicate about 9yrs service before the CM. Would my thinking be correct (infrequent) that he could have signed on for 9yrs and that his absence and subsequent 'trial' occurred at the end of his service. I doubt in 1914 that a man with his service/experience would not have been called up from reserve unless he had committed other more serious offences. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Just now, mancpal said: Those dates would indicate about 9yrs service before the CM. Would my thinking be correct (infrequent) that he could have signed on for 9yrs and that his absence and subsequent 'trial' occurred at the end of his service. I doubt in 1914 that a man with his service/experience would not have been called up from reserve unless he had committed other more serious offences. Simon Standard enlistment was for 12 years (apportioned various ways between colour and reserve service depending on the enlistment date). Where a man had deserted and was convicted he was typically made to serve the period to the point of desertion again (unless he was then discharged for some reason). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 The most likely explanation was that he had been transferred to the Reserve (for infantry, the norm was seven years with the Colours, five in the Reserve), or was about to be transferred, and had gone AWOL some time earlier. Perhaps he "anticipated" his transfer and pushed off home a bit early? I don't know how easy it is to search the Police Gazette but if he was absent for 21 days or more there should be an entry there for him. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIFFO Posted 3 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2020 (edited) Thank you all for adding mystery to my mystery. IPT I also thought he joined 1903-4 but he would have only been 15,unless he lied about his age,I have researched another lad,who lied about his age went off to fight in the boar war,came back,when war started he went to re enlist ,his record meant he was refused as to old,all he did went around the corner said he had never been in the services,must have been a wonder when he went on a novice musketry course ,when he came back from the boar war his record shows he was an expert horse man and a crack shot . I will never get to the truth so he joined after lying about his age welsh regiment for 9 years service,was CM,on reserve 1911 working as a coal hewer,start of war as a trained soldier went to France August 1914,fought the Marne had a long walk,fought at the Aisne,Chivy ridge,nearly wiped out at Gheluvelt,by the war diary they went for a rest at Ypres,where their billets were hit by heavy shell fire,they were moved to Kemmel ,1st November in a night time grenade attack he along with others unfortunately killed,body not identified,named on the gate, thanks to GWF his name will always be remembered Simon enjoy your bulmers raise a glass to all brave service people then and now Edited 3 June , 2020 by BIFFO forgot about Simons drinking habits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 June , 2020 Share Posted 3 June , 2020 Quote IPT I also thought he joined 1903-4 but he would have only been 15,unless he lied about his age Soldiers could be enlisted from age 14, with permission. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 3 June , 2020 Share Posted 3 June , 2020 In answer to Biffo I reserve the right to enjoy the odd slurp on a Tuesday (see his reason for edit) when floored at the final hurdle of my lockdown project by 'unreliable German technology' ! For a couple of years I've had a project in mind so thought the current house arrest would be the time to strike. I hadn't anticipated fire bricks becoming rarer than toilet roll and fire cement quadrupling in price but the project had to go on. Yesterday, having finally gained all the materials necessary I set about the first brick with gusto, when, halfway through the first cut amid a shower of sparks and smoke worthy of the western front my angle grinder passed away. The dratted grinder is of German manufacture, you expect a bit more "vorsprung durch technic" and considerably fewer sparks. I spent a moment wondering if there may be a loophole in the guarantee but my ignorance of the German language (and the fact that the tool is 51yrs old) made me drop the case. The upshot of this disaster was to raise a can to my late lamented German friend and rue the fact that my tandoor is still no closer. What did the Germans ever do for us? Apart from make an angle grinder in 1969 that saw active service with the GPO and a further 30yrs use in civvies, seeing off two British made transformers with Teutonic efficiency. Guten nacht, Von Simon. (and no, Ive not been at the cooking sherry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIFFO Posted 4 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2020 Von Simon you do not have to reserve the right,go ahead my "bosh"friend bottoms up as we enlanders say, in fact have a couple for me,I dont believe what iim told on der telly as I am vunrable and shielded I will not be going out and when we can ,I will not be going out for a pint(well not yet) and when I do I most certainly will not be going into a weatherspoons ,not political just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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