Wexflyer Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 John Roice (spelling on census and marriage registration), or Rice (spelling on birth registration) was born in Wexford in December 1877. He is known to have served in the British army, where he rose to rank of sergeant, possibly in the Royal Irish Regiment. Served in India, where he lost part of an ear. He was back in Wexford, as a civilian by 1904, and married there in that year. Family lore is that he also served during WWI, and the portrait photo which once existed of him in British army uniform as a sergeant suggests that that is probably correct, as he looked middle aged, rather than young on the photo. He died in Wexford in 1965 or 66. So, question is, does anyone know of any surviving army records for this man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Born 1877 then a good chance is that he enlisted at 18, so 1895. Probably best to look for a number around these in the first instance. 5065 joined on 10th January 18945364 joined on 19th February 18955867 joined on 13th August 1896 https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/08/royal-irish-regiment-1st-2nd-battalions.html Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 There is the service record of a Micheal Roice of Wexford, which lists a brother John among nok. Michael lived at Hill St, Wexford, father Patrick, mother Margaret, joined RIR in 1919 and was born circa 1892 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 4 hours ago, corisande said: There is the service record of a Micheal Roice of Wexford, which lists a brother John among nok. Michael lived at Hill St, Wexford, father Patrick, mother Margaret, joined RIR in 1919 and was born circa 1892 Yes, Michael was a brother of the John Roice I am interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, corisande said: There is the service record of a Micheal Roice of Wexford, which lists a brother John among nok. Michael lived at Hill St, Wexford, father Patrick, mother Margaret, joined RIR in 1919 and was born circa 1892 I would note that the Roices knew the Quinlisks quite well. A brother An uncle of Irish Brigade member Timothy Quinlisk was a witness at John Roice's first marriage, while a Rice (Roice) was witness at the uncle's marriage, etc. Edited 2 June , 2020 by Wexflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Quinlisk , now there is a name to conjure with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 28 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2023 (edited) Reviving this topic/query, as I recently came across some original documents. It turns out that John Roice did indeed serve in India, in the Royal Irish Regiment, and also in the Great War. Part I - Service in India Enlisted in Wexford ("attested") on the 19th March 1895, for the Royal Irish Regiment at the stated age of 18 years. Served in the army for 8 years and 10 days, of which 5 years and 142 days were abroad. Served in the reserve for a further 3 years and 355 days, for a total of 12 years and 0 days, Received India medal of 1895, with Clasp for Punjab Frontier 1897- 98. Regimental number 5402, rank private. He had a second class certificate of education Discharged from 2nd battalion, Royal Irish Regiment at Fermoy, 28th March 1903. Character very good Height 5' 7.5" Eyes blue, complexion fresh, hair light fair. Discharged from Reserves, ? July 1907. Part II - Service in Great War See attached photo of a certificate, stating he 'entered on active service" with the 30th Battalion, the London Regiment, Post Office Rifles". So, my question: Is anyone able to come up with any surviving army records for his service, especially in WWI? Previously no one was able to find any trace of him. Edited 28 May , 2023 by Wexflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 28 May , 2023 Share Posted 28 May , 2023 Two additional questions to pose... Does the certificate say '30th Battalion The London Regiment Post Office Rifles'? If it does I can only find the 8th Battalion for POR If he was a Postman as per Irish Census in 1911 do we presume he has moved to London and is still a Postman? If so does the Post Office hold a file of its workers who served in WW1? I can't find one... George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 28 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, George Rayner said: Two additional questions to pose... Does the certificate say '30th Battalion The London Regiment Post Office Rifles'? If it does I can only find the 8th Battalion for POR If he was a Postman as per Irish Census in 1911 do we presume he has moved to London and is still a Postman? If so does the Post Office hold a file of its workers who served in WW1? I can't find one... George Yes, it does say "30th Battalion The London Regiment Post Office Rifles". You should be able to read that directly on the photo I attached? He was a postman, from 1904 (appointment in London Gazette). I have no knowledge of him ever moving to London. Not impossible, I guess, but he certainly was in Wexford both pre and post war. One can imagine that as a postman he might have been pointed/directed to the POR on reenlistment? Edited 28 May , 2023 by Wexflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 28 May , 2023 Share Posted 28 May , 2023 Thanks for reply. I just can’t find any unit history of 30th Battalion The London Regiment… George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 28 May , 2023 Share Posted 28 May , 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, George Rayner said: Thanks for reply. I just can’t find any unit history of 30th Battalion The London Regiment… George The 30th (City of London) Battalion London Regiment was formed in January 1917, it was formally 101st Provisional Battalion (formed in June 1915). These were men classed as fit for Home Service only. Perhaps he first enlisted to the 8th London (Post Office Rifles) before being medically graded as unfit for overseas service. Edited 28 May , 2023 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 29 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2023 (edited) Thanks to @GWF1967 and @GeorgeRayner. Some further points/queries.Dating: The certificate i posted is in the form of a card, suitable for framing. Some idea of the date of issue can be obtained from the flags illustrated. Italy is included. This indicates that the card/certificate must have been printed after May 1915, when Italy entered the war. The USA is not included, which may indicate that the card is from before April 1917, when the USA entered the war. However, this is not certain, as existing stocks may have been used up.Units: As one can see from the photo I attached, the unit in which he served is written out over two lines. I have read this as one attribution. However, it might be possible that it is meant to convey two units, viz 30th Battalion the London Regiment, and Post Office Rifles Possible records: If we assume that he did not serve outside Ireland or Britain, is it correct that he would not have been entitled to any medals? Similarly, he would not have been entitled to an army pension? In which case, if his service papers were destroyed in WWII, there would be no record of his service, other than the certificate I found? I may post a query in the 'Ireland" board about the certificate, as it is clearly specific. Edited 29 May , 2023 by Wexflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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