EdS Posted 1 June , 2020 Share Posted 1 June , 2020 Hi I'm looking for help please. I got hold of my Great Grandfather John Thomas Savage (38463) war records, he was wounded whilst serving with 2nd Battalion Hampshire Regiment around June 1st 1917. Can anyone tell me where the 2nd Battalion would have been around this time. The info that I have is: Ailment: Gunshot wound VI (1) severe Date of Admission for Original Ailment: 07/07/1917 Date Transferred to Other Hospitals: No. 18 General Hospital U.S. 12 10/07/1917 Number of Days Under Treatment: 4 Number/Designation of Ward: A Notes written in the Observations Column: Ypres 01/07/1917. No. 10 Casualty Clearing Station. (I think that No 10 was at Remy Siding near Poperinge at this time. Many thanks in anticipation. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 1 June , 2020 Share Posted 1 June , 2020 Ed By war records do you mean his service record (from Ancestry or FMP)? Currently war diaries are free to download from the National Archive so if the appropriate one has been digitised you should discover day to day movements up until his injury. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 1 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2020 Hi Simon, Only Forces War Records but I had no idea that the NA was free to download. Thanks very much, i'll take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 1 June , 2020 Share Posted 1 June , 2020 For the duration of the current lurgy I think. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 1 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2020 Can't find anything within NA but will keep looking. Apparently gt grandfather was PT instructor (swam for Yorkshire) but based in Aldershot. I believe that due to some shenanigans he got demoted to private and sent to the front with the Hampshires. My father remembers him talking about Vimy, Ypres and Hell Fire Corner. He would tell a story about watching new recruits keen to win the shooting prize which was a crate of ale, of course they were swiftly sent off as snipers, poor sods. I'l lkeep digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudsey63 Posted 1 June , 2020 Share Posted 1 June , 2020 (edited) Hope this link works. You should find the diary here. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353591 You’ll need to register for an account and then it’s free. Edited 1 June , 2020 by pudsey63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 1 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2020 Crikey Pudsey, that's fantastic, thank you all very much. Really appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 1 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2020 (edited) The war diary is fascinating, realy can't thank you enough. But, i'm confused now, can anyone help again. Battalion were in Lancer Lane Trench in Arras area around the time gt gt grandfather was wounded. No where near Ypres. Why/how would have gone to ? Notes written in the Observations Column: Ypres 01/07/1917. No. 10 Casualty Clearing Station. Edited 1 June , 2020 by EdS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 He entered CCS 10 near Poperinghe on the 6th July 1917, the battalion were just a few kms away close to the Yser Canal. One man was accidentally wounded the night before no casualties were reported on the 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudsey63 Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 So glad you’re finding some answers Ed. I spend many hours piecing together bits from the Hampshire war diaries. I have found the shared knowledge on this forum invaluable. Good luck with your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 11 hours ago, ajsmith said: He entered CCS 10 near Poperinghe on the 6th July 1917, the battalion were just a few kms away close to the Yser Canal. One man was accidentally wounded the night before no casualties were reported on the 6th. Accidently wounded, that's interested as it was reported as a gunshot wound to the back. I'll keep scouring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 2 hours ago, pudsey63 said: So glad you’re finding some answers Ed. I spend many hours piecing together bits from the Hampshire war diaries. I have found the shared knowledge on this forum invaluable. Good luck with your search. I recently, not recently, has taken me years to piece together my grandfather's war from 1940 all way through to 1946 including DDay, Market Garden etc.... I think I've just stumbled across a new obsession. Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Sorry Tony, can you just let me know where you got the 6th July from, do you have other info to what I have. I have three dates, earliest of which is 1st July into No 10 Clearing station but then 7th as "Date of admission...". Help mate, i'm a bit lost. P.S. Thanks for the nod on location, for some reason i'd been looking at early June and not July. Date of Admission for Original Ailment: 07/07/1917 Date Transferred to Other Hospitals: No. 18 General Hospital U.S. 12 10/07/1917 Number of Days Under Treatment: 4 Number/Designation of Ward: A Notes written in the Observations Column: Ypres 01/07/1917. No. 10 Casualty Clearing Station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Hi Ed, Findmypast have a couple of the ledger entries for your Great Grandfather - link. Images sourced from Findmypast Whilst they won't name him the war diary for 10 CCS is here; 17 Ambulance Train here; and 18 (USA) General Hospital here. Whilst the record seems to read that he was transferred to a Hospital Ship on 12.7.1917, unfortunately it doesn't say which one. As well as the 12/Hants war diary (linked in post #6), the 88 Infantry Brigade HQ diary (link); and 29 Division, General Staff (link) will probably give you more context to the circumstances surrounding his wounding. If needed there is help on reading map references here His Silver War Badge record indicates that he enlisted on 8.11.1915, and was discharged due to wounds on 8.3.1918. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Bloody hell guys, I thought WW2 Talk was an incredible resource but this has been something else. Thanks again. I have two great uncles, both killed during around 20th/21st March 1918, in two different locations, with no known grave so will be researching them soon but will get my questions a bit more detailed than I have here. Cheers all. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 4 hours ago, clk said: Findmypast have a couple of the ledger entries for your Great Grandfather - link. Those entries do tell you that he was 'W Company', which I don't know if you picked up on ? Could be relevant when reading the War Diary to get more precision on where he might have been? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 5 hours ago, EdS said: Accidently wounded, that's interested as it was reported as a gunshot wound to the back. I'll keep scouring. But his name subsequently appears as Wounded in the Official Casualty List dated 31/7/17 (bottom left of this link page) which perhaps (someone please correct me) that the accidental wounding victim was not him ? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 2 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2020 That's interesting Charlie and thanks also for the Find My Past Link, definitely him on the casualty list. Would accidental wounding make a difference as to whether he would be listed? I still would like a definitive answer AS to why it staTes 1st July 1917 No 10 CCS. My original reckoning was that he might have been sent to 10 CCS on 1st July, shipped out on No17 Ambulance Train on 7th July. Looking at the diary for the No17 Ambulance (Thanks Chris) it was loaded at No10 CCS on the 7th July and arrived at 18 USA Hospital same day. Tony Smith seemed to think he was wounded on 6th which could be right but i'm still questioning the fact that the record states 1st July No 10 CCS. The family story, I didn't know my gt grandfather, was that he had his lung blown out by a one of our own shells that fell short on the 1st day of Passchendaele. Clearly the dates don't tie up and he wasn't going over the top, not too far location wise though.. My father and grandfather would talk about how he spent weeks in a straight jacket due to the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Hi, 1 hour ago, EdS said: The family story...was that he had his lung blown out As he was discharged due to wounds, I guess that he probably qualified for a pension. Some time ago the Western Front Association rescued pension index cards shortly before they were due to be destroyed. More recently they joined up with Fold3 (part of the Ancestry group) to make the cards available online. So far Fold3 (direct, or via a link from a WFA sub) have uploaded images of the cards for men that died. My understanding is that Fold3 may make available later this year the cards for men that didn't die. In which case there may be a card for your great grandfather which might indicate why/on what grounds he was awarded it. Taking it on face value the hospital records indicates that he had completed 3 months overseas service when he was admitted to 18 General Hospital on 10.7.1917. That would seem to imply that he arrived overseas at some time between 10.3.1917 and 9.4.1917. He probably would have spent a couple of weeks, or so, at an Infantry Base Depot receiving further training, before joining his unit 'in the field'. From what I saw in the 2nd Battalion war diary they received 51 'other rank' reinforcements on 30.3.1917. and 12 on 28.4.1917. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 3 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2020 Thanks a lot Chris, I really appreciate the time given to reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 3 June , 2020 Share Posted 3 June , 2020 23 hours ago, EdS said: Sorry Tony, can you just let me know where you got the 6th July from, do you have other info to what I have. I have three dates, earliest of which is 1st July into No 10 Clearing station but then 7th as "Date of admission...". Help mate, i'm a bit lost. Comparing the two apparently contradictory admission books I came to the conclusion that what looks like 1/7/1917 (the top one) may actually be a ditto mark. You can see that Private Kensett has the same date in both books. Hope that makes some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 3 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2020 Tony, that's quite some investigation work mate and I see exactly what you mean. It looks to me like someone has made an error in the modern day Forces War Records website whilst deciphering/digitising the originals. 6th it is! So possibly the 'accidental wound'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 4 June , 2020 Share Posted 4 June , 2020 An 'accidental' wound caused by a drop-short of our own barrage would seem to me very likely to qualify for official listing as wounded. I was thinking previously of accidents when training eg grenade practice etc. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 4 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2020 As Tony said and as I found out within the diary he was close to the front at Boezinghe so possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdS Posted 4 June , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2020 (edited) Deleted image of entry of 4th. Red Herring. Got over excited Edited 4 June , 2020 by EdS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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