Buffnut453 Posted 29 May , 2020 Share Posted 29 May , 2020 (edited) Hi Folks, Hope someone can help identify the regiment for this soldier. To my inexperienced eyes, his collar badge looks like a variation of the Australian rising sun. However, the chap was a Brit and the photo was taken in northwest England. Any ideas/pointers would be very much appreciated. Many thanks, Mark Edited 29 May , 2020 by Buffnut453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 29 May , 2020 Share Posted 29 May , 2020 (edited) They certainly look like ANZAC collar badges, as does the hat. When you say he was a 'Brit', do you mean he never set foot outside these islands before the war? Lots of Britons emigrated to Australia before the war, joined up in the ANZAC Corps, and fought with them. And it's not unusual for them to be photographed back in the UK with relatives during the conflict. Can you give his details? OK, so he's a Jones. What's his first name and his brother's name? Edited 29 May , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 29 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2020 He's one of 3 brothers and 3 further half-brothers from St.Helens. The brother on the right wearing the RFC uniform never left the UK so I'm 99% certain that he hadn't emigrated pre-war. Unfortunately, I don't have full details and the surname is Jones which is somewhat unhelpful. I do have full details for the RFC brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 29 May , 2020 Share Posted 29 May , 2020 A shot in the dark: https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/records/53164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 29 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2020 (edited) Wow...that's a decent shot in the dark. According to the 1911 Census, the names of the Jones boys are listed below with associated birth years (with all the inaccuracies that may be prevalent in Census records): Thomas (b 1889) - Listed in the AVL as a Pte in the 11th South Lancs Regt Walter (b 1891) Robert Maurice (b 1893) - According to the town's AVL, was commissioned into the Royal Welsh Fusiliers as of August 1918 Malcolm (b 1897) Joseph Arthur (b 1898) - Joined the RFC and listed in the AVL Frederick (b 1902) - Too young to serve Based on the above, we're looking at Walter or Malcolm as the likely candidates for this man. Certainly something of a puzzle (at least to me). However, neither of them are listed on the AVL. I did a quick search of emigration records and found that a Malcolm Jones (b 1897), a divinity student, left the UK for Australia in 1915. That might offer an explanation. I'll have to reach out to the family to see if that detail jives with known information about Malcolm. Edited 29 May , 2020 by Buffnut453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffnut453 Posted 29 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2020 Quick update...found him! Malcolm Jones enlisted 9 March 1916. His service record is available on Ancestry. en Mystery solved. Thanks for the tipper, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr, about looking for someone who emigrated before enlisting. I hadn't thought it feasible but it turns out to have been the answer all along. Again, many thanks! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 29 May , 2020 Share Posted 29 May , 2020 It's easy with this: https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/places Maps every ANZAC by place of birth. Type in St.Helens in the box and click on the green markers when the map zooms in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 May , 2020 Share Posted 29 May , 2020 It’s often not realised by people in Britain the large number of 1st Generation Britons joined and served with ANZAC units. It was first brought to my attention by an Australian Army Officer during a battlefield staff ride on the Somme from HQ ARRC. We were able to look at some stats and I was very surprised. It was similar with the Canadian Corps too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 29 May , 2020 Share Posted 29 May , 2020 5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: It’s often not realised by people in Britain the large number of 1st Generation Britons joined and served with ANZAC units. It was first brought to my attention by an Australian Army Officer during a battlefield staff ride on the Somme from HQ ARRC. We were able to look at some stats and I was very surprised. It was similar with the Canadian Corps too. I have recently been researching 2 brothers in the CEF: Donald Mac (or Mc) Donald, and his brother Murdoch (or Murdo). Both Welsh speaking Welshmen from Anglesey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 May , 2020 Share Posted 29 May , 2020 32 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: I have recently been researching 2 brothers in the CEF: Donald Mac (or Mc) Donald, and his brother Murdoch (or Murdo). Both Welsh speaking Welshmen from Anglesey. Welsh Jocks by the look of their names! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 30 May , 2020 Share Posted 30 May , 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Welsh Jocks by the look of their names! Their father seems to have been a jobbing gardener from Scotland, but I can't see that either brother ever set foot in Scotland. I have many examples of local boys ending up serving in Dominion forces On the Anglesey AVL for 1918, I have one ANZAC and 15 serving in the Canadians. I'm sure that other parts of the country were similar. I have one local man who emigrated to Australia before the war, badly wounded in 1917, died of wounds, and was buried back near here in his home village. Fortunately, the Australian and Canadian records are so well preserved, that they are easy to research compared to our scorched fragments. Edited 30 May , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 May , 2020 Share Posted 30 May , 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Their father seems to have been a jobbing gardener from Scotland, but I can't see that either brother ever set foot in Scotland. I have many examples of local boys ending up serving in Dominion forces On the Anglesey AVL for 1918, I have one ANZAC and 15 serving in the Canadians. I'm sure that other parts of the country were similar. I have one local man who emigrated to Australia before the war, badly wounded in 1917, died of wounds, and was buried back near here in his home village. Fortunately, the Australian and Canadian records are so well preserved, that they are easy to research compared to our scorched fragments. Yes, what you say once again bears out what the Australian Army Colonel told me in conversation. It's good that these men are not forgotten and that some records at least have been preserved. I wonder how many time-served men were denied various entitlements as a result of their military service record being destroyed. Edited 30 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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