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CasseRae

Not recorded pf CWGC

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sadbrewer

Just trying to find a lead into Cpl Frederick Harris G/60 East Kent Regiment.

Ancestry are showing this record in Soldiers Effects.

 

Screenshot_20200531-102922.jpg

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PRC
Posted (edited)

Sorry - confused. OP has confirmed -

 

19 hours ago, CasseRae said:
  •  In fact I am looking for information on Frederick 14372 of Hinton Waldrist whose parents I have as Robert and Elizabeth Harris,

 

Is there reason to believe there is a second Frederick Harris of the Royal Berkshire Regiment with a Hinton Waldrist connection who could have potentially been nominated for inclusion on the chuurch war memorial? If so that does raise the question of which one of the two of them is actually on there and is an avenue to be explored.

 

I'm sure any further information on 14732 (edit)14372 Frederick would also be welcome.

 

Otherwise looks like the thread is going off on a bit of a tangent, at which point I'm not sure which question we are answering. Apologies if I'm being slow of understanding:)

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited by PRC
To stop myself from adding to the confusion :-)

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Matlock1418
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PRC said:

Otherwise looks like the thread is going off on a bit of a tangent, at which point I'm not sure which question we are answering. Apologies if I'm being slow of understanding:)

Could perhaps be, so we all do need to be careful - I have already tried to answer on the main issue - but how come the newspaper and PC have a Frederick Harris 14732 {edit corrrection} 14372 of Hinton with a 13 October 1915 date of death recorded when CWGC have 25 September 1915?

That's the puzzle for me at the moment.

Unfortunately I haven't found a Pension record for G/60 so can't tell if he was possibly a Hinton man too.

Just trying to make sure we aren't mixing various men's details as has previously challenged the OP.

:-) M

 

Edit: The Frederick Harris name does seem to cause its fair share of confusion - the War Memorial / wooden plaques on the triptych at Hinton Waldrist https://www.longworth-history.org.uk/villages-at-war/parishes/trans-doors.html shows the 26 September 1915 date that the OP started out with [as does the stone tablet https://www.longworth-history.org.uk/villages-at-war/parishes/hinton-memorials.html ] - so am trying to avoid any more revolving around date(s)

Edited by Matlock1418
addit and likewise correction of typo error with number too - ye gads!

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ss002d6252
31 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Could perhaps be, so we all do need to be careful - I have already tried to answer on the main issue - but how come the newspaper and PC have a Frederick Harris 14732 of Hinton with a 13 October 1915 date of death recorded when CWGC have 25 September 1915?

That's the puzzle for me at the moment.

Unfortunately I haven't found a Pension record for G/60 so can't tell if he was possibly a Hinton man too.

Just trying to make sure we aren't mixing various men's details as has previously challenged the OP.

:-) M

 

A £3 10s (net) gratuity and a death 13 Oct 1915 would need an enlistment 14 Sep 1914 or later.

 

The soldiers effects have him as #14732 Harris, 25 Sep 1915 (indexed incorrectly as #14372).

 

The gratuity tells us he enlisted in the month from 26 Aug 1914 - which ties in with #14732 being issued. Looking at other numbers suggests 7 Sep 1914

 

#14726 was issued 7 Sep 1914
#14745 was issued 7 Sep 1914

 

The war gratuity does fit a man who enlisted with a number from 7 Sep 1914.

 

Craig

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Matlock1418
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The war gratuity does not fit a man who enlisted awith a number from 7 Sep 1914. A £3 10s (net) gratuity and a death 13 Oct 1915 would need an enlistment 14 Sep 1914 or later.

Sorry, now I'm confused - which Harris are you talking about please?

I think you must be describing the prime 14732 - please correct me if you are not.

58 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The soldiers effects have him as #14732 Harris, 25 Sep 1915 (indexed incorrectly as #14372).

Oh joy, a misindexing! [one way or another]

58 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The gratuity tells us he enlisted in the month from 26 Aug 1914 - which ties in with #14732 being issued. Looking at other numbers suggests 7 Sep 1914

 

Strange your calculator comes up with this, and no reason to question or contradict it - other than your second observation!

Would a death on 13 October 1915 run backwards with his gratuity match the enlisting issue as 7 Sept 1914? Edit: Sorry, you answered that in your first line.

Oh such fun and games.

I remain confused.

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
addit

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Matlock1418
1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

The soldiers effects have him as #14732 Harris, 25 Sep 1915 (indexed incorrectly as #14372).

Craig, Haven't edited the above post just in case you missed the edit.

Frederick Harris of Hinton's 14xx2 number has caused quite a few of us problems and caused several earlier re-edits! :-/

Could you please confirm which number is used on on RSE and what is used the index for the RSE. [I can't access the RSE until lockdown is over] - thanks

 

14372 certainly seems the one used on MIC, CWGC and Pension Card - does this alter the Gratuity / enlistment / death calculations at all?

:-) M

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ss002d6252
1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Craig, Haven't edited the above post just in case you missed the edit.

Frederick Harris of Hinton's 14xx2 number has caused quite a few of us problems and caused several earlier re-edits! :-/

Could you please confirm which number is used on on RSE and what is used the index for the RSE. [I can't access the RSE until lockdown is over] - thanks

 

14372 certainly seems the one used on MIC, CWGC and Pension Card - does this alter the Gratuity / enlistment / death calculations at all?

:-) M

#14732 on the actual effects register but indexed as #14372 (someone may have submitted a correction ?).


#14370 was also issued on 7 Sep 1914 (busy day for staff) so that tells us that, for example, the war gratuity for #14372 dying on 25 Sep 1915 would be the same as #14732

 

Craig

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Matlock1418
4 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

#14732 on the actual effects register but indexed as #14372 (someome have submitted a correction ?).


#14370 was also issued on 7 Sep 1914 (busy day for staff) so that tells us that, for example, the war gratuity for #14372 dying on 25 Sep 1915 would be the same as #14732

Thanks for clarification

:-) M

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CasseRae
On 29/05/2020 at 17:35, alf mcm said:

 

Many thanks for the further research into Frederick Harris. Re the Pension card dl from Fold3 the marriage to Dorthy Clark is shown in the parish register:

1913 27 Dec HARRIS Frederick 25 bach labourer o.t.p. HARRIS Robert shepherd
CLARK Dorothy Edith Mary 19 spin domestic servant Longworth CLARK George labourer
Wits: George CLARK, Emily HARRIS and the baptism of the daughter Mildred Harris.  

 

Am happy to look up  Cpl Frederick Harris G/60 The Buffs (Royal East Kent) [date of death recorded by CWGC = 13/10/1915] and will get back to you.

Sorry to have not been about this morning so was delayed in this response.

1913 27 Dec HARRIS Frederick 

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CasseRae
Posted (edited)

There is another brother of our Frederick an older one. Son of Robert and Elizabeth again. This boy was named Frederick George Harris. He died on 25 Sep 1915 .  He seems also being he is older than the younger Fred to call himself simply Frederick Harris. Not the same date but the Cpl Harris you asked about I am still looking at.

I had told you but it seems to not have been saved, sorry.

Heck that is the same death date as the younger man!!   Many people are researching this family and all have this date against Frederick George Harris. I'll be back.

 

Edited by CasseRae

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
Posted (edited)

This story is getting weirder by the minute.

I've heard of parents christening new babies with the same name as the previously deceased child, but it must be extremely uncommon for parents to give a second child the same forename whilst the first was still alive.

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

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CasseRae

I thought there maybe was an error and the two were in fact one. The children of Robert Harris were all baptised, so I looked up Frederick George's Baptism - he was born in a close by village of Cote.

year  Privately baptised 3 May 1871 

 frederick-george-harris-baptised.jpg.42d0f3b27a9f4f82769d8acfcde2e0fa.jpg

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PRC
3 minutes ago, CasseRae said:

I thought there maybe was an error and the two were in fact one. The children of Robert Harris were all baptised, so I looked up Frederick George's Baptism - he was born in a close by village of Cote.

year  Privately baptised 3 May 1871 

 frederick-george-harris-baptised.jpg.42d0f3b27a9f4f82769d8acfcde2e0fa.jpg

 

Getting weirder - the newspaper announcement previously quoted says aged 27 in 1915 so definately not born in 1871. Could you clarify what you mean when you say the two were in fact one?

 

Thanks,

Peter

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CasseRae
20 minutes ago, PRC said:

 

Getting weirder - the newspaper announcement previously quoted says aged 27 in 1915 so definately not born in 1871. Could you clarify what you mean when you say the two were in fact one?

 

Thanks,

Peter

I simply meant that two boys had their facts mixed. Anyhow, please forget the Frederick George Harris as he was born in 1870, baptised in 1871 and died in 1871.

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