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Mick M

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I'm looking at a pre war soldier of the AOC, joined in 1903 in Guernsey where he was a trained sail maker. Served until 1911 his trade being sail maker in Malta and home. Discharged to reserve and his officers discharge assessment says he worked mainly as a sail maker...On outbreak of war he immediately joined up again and was in France by the end of August 14, in 1917 he went to Italy,,,Z list in 1919...

 

I can see his skills being used on tents but what would a sail maker be doing in The AOC either pre war or during WW1

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couple of chaps on FamilySearch

Dave

 

William Jones Principal England and Wales Census, 1911birth:1884C I, Guernsey residence:1911 Il-Furjana, Malta 2ND BATTALION NORTHAMPTONSHIRE REGIMENT, FLORIANA BARRACKS, MALTA
 
Maurice William Dee Principal England and Wales Census, 1911birth:1880 St Peters, Guernsey residence:1911Valletta, Malta NO 63 COMPANY ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY, FORT SAINT ELMO, VALLETTA, MALTA
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Not sure about the AOC.  The RFC definitely had need for sail makers.  I have an aerial image of Netheravon taken in March 1918 with the various facilities on the airfield labelled.  One of the buildings is the Sailmaker's Shop.  I realise this probably doesn't help.

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3 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

Not sure about the AOC.  The RFC definitely had need for sail makers.  I have an aerial image of Netheravon taken in March 1918 with the various facilities on the airfield labelled.  One of the buildings is the Sailmaker's Shop.  I realise this probably doesn't help.

The very best bollocking I ever got involved the words no knowledge is ever wasted...thank you I have learned something...besides my maternal grandfather joined the RFC in 1915, he and his brother were fully qualified dealers, his brother was posted to a Pioneer Battalion was buried alive suffered shell shock for life, died early...my grandfather I have no idea what he dis but fusilage coverage is a good guess.

3 hours ago, davidbohl said:

couple of chaps on FamilySearch

Dave

 

William Jones Principal England and Wales Census, 1911birth:1884C I, Guernsey residence:1911 Il-Furjana, Malta 2ND BATTALION NORTHAMPTONSHIRE REGIMENT, FLORIANA BARRACKS, MALTA
 
Maurice William Dee Principal England and Wales Census, 1911birth:1880 St Peters, Guernsey residence:1911Valletta, Malta NO 63 COMPANY ROYAL GARRISON ARTILLERY, FORT SAINT ELMO, VALLETTA, MALTA

Vallarta was mentioned in his Malta entry...was it a big depot?

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3 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

Not sure about the AOC.  The RFC definitely had need for sail makers.  I have an aerial image of Netheravon taken in March 1918 with the various facilities on the airfield labelled.  One of the buildings is the Sailmaker's Shop.  I realise this probably doesn't help.

Dealers should read drapers don't think grandpa would conceptualize what a dealer is!

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The AOC in WW1 and before was responsible for the supply and repair of many types of Army equipment, your suggestion of tents and other canvas shelters would seem to fit.

As would canvas tarpaulins and covers for lorries and other temporary shelters.  During the war, given the exponential increase in demand the AOC tended to become more focused on ammunition and artillery shells and their earlier role forgotten

 

Malta was the main supply depot for the Mediterranean before the war.  I wonder if the Army also used small boats/barges to offload supplies in the harbour.

 

This Classic Thread has a series of photographs of the AOC at work, each one of which features canvas of some sort.

 

Ken

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15 hours ago, Mick M said:

I'm looking at a pre war soldier of the AOC, joined in 1903 in Guernsey where he was a trained sail maker. Served until 1911 his trade being sail maker in Malta and home. Discharged to reserve and his officers discharge assessment says he worked mainly as a sail maker...On outbreak of war he immediately joined up again and was in France by the end of August 14, in 1917 he went to Italy,,,Z list in 1919...

 

Standard enlistment term was 12 years. 1903 was a bit of a changeover year with the Army moving from pushing 7 years in the colours followed by 5 in the Reserve to 3 years in the colours and 9 in reserve. Other options were available and a man could extend the balance in the colours up to the full 12 years or even 20 for a pension. Men were normally returned to the UK before the end of their time in the Colours, although that time could be extended in time of crisis or to allow the man concerned to travel. So he could potentially have left in 1911 and to have still have been in the Army on the 2nd April 1911 when the Census of England & Wales was taken. The scope of that census included military units in the British Empire not covered by another local census such as Scotland or Ireland. However I suspect that is not the case.

 

So unless he was discharged due to ill-health or dishonourably discharged, his liability for service would have gone through to 1915. He didn't enlist again but was mobilised and so should have gone back to his old unit.

 

So what's his name and which unit did he go out to France with in August 1914 if it wasn't the AOC. Have you been able to track him down on the 1911 Census?

 

Cheers,

Peter

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9 hours ago, PRC said:

 

Standard enlistment term was 12 years. 1903 was a bit of a changeover year with the Army moving from pushing 7 years in the colours followed by 5 in the Reserve to 3 years in the colours and 9 in reserve. Other options were available and a man could extend the balance in the colours up to the full 12 years or even 20 for a pension. Men were normally returned to the UK before the end of their time in the Colours, although that time could be extended in time of crisis or to allow the man concerned to travel. So he could potentially have left in 1911 and to have still have been in the Army on the 2nd April 1911 when the Census of England & Wales was taken. The scope of that census included military units in the British Empire not covered by another local census such as Scotland or Ireland. However I suspect that is not the case.

 

So unless he was discharged due to ill-health or dishonourably discharged, his liability for service would have gone through to 1915. He didn't enlist again but was mobilised and so should have gone back to his old unit.

 

So what's his name and which unit did he go out to France with in August 1914 if it wasn't the AOC. Have you been able to track him down on the 1911 Census?

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

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10 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The AOC in WW1 and before was responsible for the supply and repair of many types of Army equipment, your suggestion of tents and other canvas shelters would seem to fit.

As would canvas tarpaulins and covers for lorries and other temporary shelters.  During the war, given the exponential increase in demand the AOC tended to become more focused on ammunition and artillery shells and their earlier role forgotten

 

Malta was the main supply depot for the Mediterranean before the war.  I wonder if the Army also used small boats/barges to offload supplies in the harbour.

 

This Classic Thread has a series of photographs of the AOC at work, each one of which features canvas of some sort.

 

Ken

Thanks Ken that is useful...

Mick.

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Thanks Ken and Peter,

The soldier is Henry Clifford Baptiste 5279, his file exists and in 1911 he was a boarder in Dover and employed as a government sail maker. He had previous to 1903 served 2 years in the Guernsey Malitia and I suspect it was 1901 and 2 as in 1901 the service became compulsory giving him a taste for military life. His service on discharge is described as immaculate not a single blemish.....found his file by accident but saw a number of opportunities to improve knowledge....

 

Thanks again both comments useful...

 

Mick...

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1 hour ago, Mick M said:

The soldier is Henry Clifford Baptiste 5279, his file exists

 

So enlisted on the 5th February 1903 on a 3 and 9 split but in September 1904 extended his time in the colours to 8 years, being discharged to the Reserve on the 4th February 1911.

 

He been barely out of the Army 8 weeks when the Census was taken, so probably still finding his feet.

 

I see he gets a mention in Volume IV of the National Roll of Honour. These entries were penned by the soldier or their family so should be treated with a degree of caution - Henry "total" service in the Army includes his 3 and a half years in the Reserves for example - but still worth a read.

885189841_HCBaptisteNationalRollEntrysourcedGenesReunited.jpg.5a6067c82a6f93b7e15060c8056f80d9.jpg

 

Image sourced Genes Reunited.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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19 hours ago, PRC said:

 

So enlisted on the 5th February 1903 on a 3 and 9 split but in September 1904 extended his time in the colours to 8 years, being discharged to the Reserve on the 4th February 1911.

 

He been barely out of the Army 8 weeks when the Census was taken, so probably still finding his feet.

 

I see he gets a mention in Volume IV of the National Roll of Honour. These entries were penned by the soldier or their family so should be treated with a degree of caution - Henry "total" service in the Army includes his 3 and a half years in the Reserves for example - but still worth a read.

885189841_HCBaptisteNationalRollEntrysourcedGenesReunited.jpg.5a6067c82a6f93b7e15060c8056f80d9.jpg

 

Image sourced Genes Reunited.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Many thanks Peter.

Edited by Mick M
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I see your point about content, there is no way he was ever near a battle!

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