Glengarry identification

[tonya1]

Hi

I have just bought a glengarry to add to my collection.

It is black, with a red toorie.  It has a Royal Scots badge with no silk behind.  The impression left by the badge matches the badge shape perfectly.  It has a wide leather trim of approximately 20mm.

Inside in red ink/paint is says Rool Sim with something un-readable underneath.  Then in a round cornered rectangular box is has  21 1/2.

Any one any ideas as to age?

My thoughts are:-

Black would mean a piper/ bandsman for the Royal Scots.

The leather trim would suggest WW1, but it is much wider than my other leather trimmed glengarries.

The badge has been on the glengarry for a long time and is not a replacement. (Don't know if it is genuine; looks ok).

Never seen red letters.

Not sure what 21 1/2 would suggest other than inches which is the size/circumference of the base.

Not sure what Rool Sim is or was.

(The tails had been cut off; but I have just added some from another old glengarry that were spare.)

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Tony

 

[FROGSMILE]

It does seem likely to be a pipers glengarry (not bandsman).  The leather bands were much wider at that time.  The number within the rectangle is I believe the size.  To confirm the badge as original is more troublesome as if it was retrofitted by a dealer or even a previous collector/owner an impression on the cap would appear over time.  The ‘Rool Sim’ marking is not familiar.

Edited 24 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[tonya1]

Thanks for this and the great photos.  The only other examples of this I have seen have the markings in white, not red, and usually hat sizes like 7 1/2 not the inches. The badge isn't a problem either way.  If truth be known I am considering replacing it with a Cameron badge to fit in with my collection.  It's the first plain blue/black leather trimmed glengarry I have seen/ bought.  They seem to be much rarer than the diced ones; even Argyll and Sutherland highlanders ones.

 

[mancpal]

Although the spacing doesn't seem to allow, I wondered if 'Rool' could have been Royal with the 'y' eroded as with the 'tail' from the 'a'. While I'm at it, may 'Sim' be S/M but other than Sergeant Major I can't think of what It could be short for.

To compound my lack of insight into uniforms could somebody explain how the letters were applied, are they hand written (I think unlikely), stamp, transfer (iron-on ?) or what other means?

If they were transfer printed a crease in the transfer could easily account for the absence of a 'y'. I can't see them being stencilled either but not sure why.

 

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, tonya1 said:

Thanks for this and the great photos.  The only other examples of this I have seen have the markings in white, not red, and usually hat sizes like 7 1/2 not the inches. The badge isn't a problem either way.  If truth be known I am considering replacing it with a Cameron badge to fit in with my collection.  It's the first plain blue/black leather trimmed glengarry I have seen/ bought.  They seem to be much rarer than the diced ones; even Argyll and Sutherland highlanders ones.

 

 

Yes, you are right to be curious about red markings.  Clothing regulations laid down black ink on the inside of uniforms with white or scarlet lining and white on items with a dark coloured lining (usually black).  The markings were to be stencilled on using paint and stencils issued to quartermaster's departments.  These were over and above ink stamps for size, etc. that were placed by the manufacturer.

Edited 24 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[mancpal]

I have some experience of stencilling and screen printing (much the same principle). I imagine the stencil would be rigid and if so blows my 'creased transfer' theory out of the water and probably safely ashore.

 

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

35 minutes ago, mancpal said:

I have some experience of stencilling and screen printing (much the same principle). I imagine the stencil would be rigid and if so blows my 'creased transfer' theory out of the water and probably safely ashore.

 

Simon

 

Yes the stencil sets were brass and in two sizes, half inch and one inch.  We were still using them, unchanged, in 1970.  One set issued to each CQMS.  There were also small steel punch sets for use on mess tins and knife, fork, spoon, etc.

Edited 24 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[tonya1]

Just for completeness on this topic I have just seen someone else's pictures of a WW1 dated glengarry and the makers name, in red, is Robt. Sim. Their's also has the size stamp like mine; red in a red box.

I also note that the sweatband on their's is also wider than usual, so I presume it was specific to this manufacturer.