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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Manchester Regt DCM MM


Paul Reed

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i really don't know about the battle flash but David does make the point that :-

2/10 Manchester

disbanded in the 4 battalions to 3 battalions reduction in early 1918,

and he might have gone to 1/10th or other Manchester battalions in 42nd

Div.

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Paul,

None of the men in Harribobs list are listed as having bith the DCM and MM, only the former.

The following is a list of the Manchester Reg men with both.

CSM Ashworth J 14O51 24 Bn

Sjt Curran J 38544

Sjt Fisher M 22248 2 Bn

A/Sjt Glynn W 9025 2 Bn

Sjt Green J W 375395

Sjt Harrison H 300448 1/8 Bn

CSM Hughes A H 31 1 Bn

A/Cpl Kenyon W 48634

Sjt Lavelle E 1483 2 Bn

Sjt Lees S R 375179 1/10 Bn

Sjt Martin D 61429 12 Bn

CSM McDonald T 582

CSM McHugh P S 275355 1/7 Bn

CSM Mutters C W 1175

A/Sjt Royle L 2502 11 Bn

CSM Smith J B 18729 21 Bn

Hope this helps rather than hinders

Regards

Fred

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fred

my list is DCM's not DCM plus MMs

Stretcher bearers from the DCM citations

however it does include Dean and Barnes who are DCM plus MM's but are not on your list

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You have the better of me there Harribobs. My information is from Walker's book

"Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1914-1920." Whilst both Dean and Barnes are listed ,MM does not appear behind their names as it does with the ones I listed.

Fred

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  • 2 months later...

Just bumping this back up as I have put the photos back in place - following the forum move they had gone.

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Just bumping this back up as I have put the photos back in place - following the forum move they had gone.

the man in the photo appears to have fleur de lisle buttons,thats 1/7th batt,i think there was only one man who won both these medals,his sb armband might be throwing you out,if he went on to gain senior NCO status then i doubt if he is going to be a csm or rsm of stretcher bearers,the clue to this is the photo and not what happened later,so i think you are looking for a private 1/7th batt who at the time was still a private soldier with the DCM+ MM,that should give you a positive ID.

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the man in the photo appears to have fleur de lisle buttons,thats 1/7th batt,i think there was only one man who won both these medals,his sb armband might be throwing you out,if he went on to gain senior NCO status then i doubt if he is going to be a csm or rsm of stretcher bearers,the clue to this is the photo and not what happened later,so i think you are looking for a private 1/7th batt who at the time was still a private soldier with the DCM+ MM,that should give you a positive ID.

you've got good eyes bernard, i can't see a fleur de lys on the button, to be honest i'm very surprised the 7th wore different buttons, i've never seen any, were they floriated fleurs?

we had (along with dave hopkins, curator mancs museum) come down in favour of a private,

WHich leaves 376870

Pte S Barnes of 2/10th Battalion - citation reads:  For conspicuous

gallantry and devotion to duty as a Stretcher Bearer. On one occasion, he

was, for several hours, under continuous rifle and machine gun fire,

searching for two men who had been lost on a patrol.  Gazette date

17/4/1918.  MM date 14/1/1918.

cheers

chris

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Chris

Apologies if my memory is failing me, but didnt we come to a conclusion that (a) Barnes might have been an Oldham man and that (B) seeing as you live that way, you were going to pop into the local history library to see if there was anything in the local papers.

Or have I just been having one of those "Wouldnt it be great if Chris just......"

John

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Chris......further.......

I'll bring a copy of the photo with me to WFA tomorrow. If anyone can recognise a 10th Bn man, then our speaker, Bill Mitchinson, can.

John

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Chris

Apologies if my memory is failing me, but didnt we come to a conclusion that (a) Barnes might have been an Oldham man and that (B) seeing as you live that way, you were going to pop into the local history library to see if there was anything in the local papers.

Or have I just been having one of those "Wouldnt it be great if Chris just......"

John

:) if we did! then mines gone completely :D

Bill will probably have a copy of his book 'amateur soldiers' with him ( t'auld tenth) so with luck we can realy nail this down

btw, that was the book i was in Ashton for last weekend and couldn't get!

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Chris

OK. Let's nobble Bill.

If no joy there, then I still reckon a trip to Oldham library might pay off. It'd be good to be able to give Paul some news. Toss a coin with you for the trip?

John

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Thanks in advance for all your efforts, gentlemen. And please give my regards to Bill; it's been many years since our paths last crossed!

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you've got good eyes bernard, i can't see a fleur de lys on the button, to be honest i'm very surprised the 7th wore different buttons, i've never seen any, were they floriated fleurs?

we had (along with dave hopkins, curator mancs museum) come down in favour of a private,

cheers

chris

hi harribobs,the 7th batt was the only manchester batt that had a different badge,it was a fleur de lisle,david hopkins will verify this,check the buttons out on his tunic,if they are fleur de lisle,then he is 1/7th batt.ps,its time for a good debate on the manchesters.

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the man in the photo appears to have fleur de lisle buttons,

Are you sure, Bernard?

They definately look like G.S. buttons to me (as they should be in regards to the period). Apart from on (some) dress uniforms, wasn't the F de L button only worn post 1919 on SD of the 7th Bn.? (and post 1926 for the remainder of the Manchester Regiment).

Dave.

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Paul

I can't make out the buttons from the posted photo. Could you please have a look at your original and see if you can make out fleur de lys' on them. Ta.

Must admit I thought the 7th only wore the fleur de lys as a cap badge, but you never know.

John

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Thanks Paul.

Not fleur de lys IMO.

Chris & I will stick with Plan A for now. Back to you in due course.

John

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I've lost track a little on this thread to be honest, but just to add to Fred W's list of DCM and MM winners of the Manchesters...

Sgt.J.Sugden

With Sgt.Lees (mentioned on Fred's list) these men were the two 10th Manchesters DCM and MM winners. The rank mentioned is their final rank, not necessarily the rank they held when awarded the medals.

Dave.

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Dave

Ta for the extra. Chris & I are going to try and explore the likely candidate as put forward by David @ the museum. We'll either confirm him, eliminate him or shrug our shoulders and tell Paul we gave it our best shot.

Having invested time in this - AND MY FIVER - I want to see it through.

John

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i never thought the buttons were fleur de lys, i think the correct button for the period would be the GS

certainly the 7th wore the floriated fleur de lys (not the post 1922 plain fleur de lys) at the start of the war, but war economy meant the battalion wore standard badges by the end of the war, (i think Dave posted something on this and we had the post war pic from Jim) and i really can't see them wearing different buttons

i believe the floriated fleur de lys came from the 63rd's history, the 7th cap badges wasn't the first example ,

i think this is a red herring regarding the ID of this chap IMHO!

officers silver 7th cap badge and 63rd brass cast pouch/musicians badge :-

post-3719-1115844667.jpg

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Having invested time in this - AND MY FIVER  - I want to see it through.

John

oh yes!! i suspect we'll get closer tomorrow night but it might be fun to get up to oldham and pin it down,

i'll shoot off a couple of emails tomorrow but i can't see anything happening until i get back from crete

:rolleyes:

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Had a look at the Local Heritage Library website. Got quite a collection - particularly copies of the Oldham Chronicle which is going to be the place to start I reckon.

Joint trip? Bit of an outing (so to speak)?

John

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Had a look at the Local Heritage Library website. Got quite a collection - particularly copies of the Oldham Chronicle which is going to be the place to start I reckon.

Joint trip? Bit of an outing (so to speak)?

John

i know a nice place for lunch in t'hills above oldham :)

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