Military Service Act 1917?

[Alan24]

Does such  an act dated 1917 exist?

 

I've found the following;

Military Service Act 1916

Military Service Act 1916 (Session 2)

Military Service Act 1918

 

In the 1918 Act, there is a reference to MSA 1917 but no info when I search online.

 

The acts above can be downloaded in PDF from legislation.gov.uk 

MSA 1916

MSA 1916 (No.2)

MSA 1918

 

Regards

 

Alan.

 

[Matlock1418]

On 23/05/2020 at 12:07, Alan24 said:

Does such  an act dated 1917 exist?

I'm having the same problem - though I confirm I've also seen mentioned - neither can I find the MSA 1917

 

Nor can I find the MSA (No 2) Act 1918

 

???

:-) M

[HERITAGE PLUS]

The 1917 MSA is mentioned here:

 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3473871?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

 

Dave

[Matlock1418]

18 minutes ago, HERITAGE PLUS said:

The 1917 MSA is mentioned here

Thanks - a handy 1919 article

But therein lies the problem ... Plenty of 'mentions' in various places but I can't find a copy of it.

Nor the other - MS(No 2)A 1918

???

:-) M

 

Edit:  Here is the complimentary earlier 1917 article  https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3474719.pdf 

Edited 26 January , 2021 by Matlock1418
Edit

[IPT]

Does it relate to Canada? Is this it? - https://archive.org/details/MilitaryServiceAct1917Manual/page/n17/mode/2up

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, IPT said:

Does it relate to Canada?

I had wondered about that - I suppose it might perhaps - but I don't know.

:-/ M

[IPT]

It does say "This Act may be cited as The Military Service Act, 1917", so I expect it is, but I don't know anything about the subject!

[Guest]

To start with-and just to muddy the waters, there are actually 2 Military Service Acts in 1917:

 

·         Military Service (Conventions with Allied States) Act 1917 c. 26

·         Military Service (Review of Exceptions) Act 1917 c. 12

 

I suspect it is chapter 12 (c 12) that is wanted:

 

 

 

     The usual place to find this would be the printed volumes annually of Public Statutes- big boring red volumes found in larger reference libraries which bring a whole new dimension to the word "turgid".   Luckily, the relevant volume has been digitised and can be found online   at www.archive.org  

 

 

      Hope  that helps...and by the way-ENJOY!!   as if  

[MaureenE]

The link mentioned is 

https://archive.org/details/dli.granth.91501/page/12/mode/2up

[Guest]

 

     Thanks Maureene- crossed with me (and probably you!!) tracking the Military Service (No 2) Act 1918

This act can also be found in the volume of Public General Statutes for 1918 on www.archive.org.    The link for the 1918 act is:

 

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.211062?q=Military+service+(No+2)+act

[Matlock1418]

You beat both me to the crossing/s which was/were in the making!

Thanks Maureene

The links make life so much easier. :-)

Yes, they can be challenging to read but the best place to understand exactly what went on and exactly as enacted and not as transcribed/interpreted by someone else.

:-) M

[Guest]

My Grandfather was drafted under the 1917 Military Service Act, and the paper that I found was from when he was 21 years old and 8 months, so December 1918. I see that the 2nd Depot Battalian of the Eastern Ontario Regiment, his regiment, was active until April 1919. Since the war was over at that point I am curious about what his duties would have been, if he was actually active. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on this?

[kenf48]

31 minutes ago, Kim H said:

My Grandfather was drafted under the 1917 Military Service Act, and the paper that I found was from when he was 21 years old and 8 months, so December 1918. I see that the 2nd Depot Battalian of the Eastern Ontario Regiment, his regiment, was active until April 1919. Since the war was over at that point I am curious about what his duties would have been, if he was actually active. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on this?

Welcome to the forum.

I don't know what happened in Canada but soldiers drafted after the Armistice in the UK were simply sent home.  This caused considerable resentment with those still on active service overseas.

You would probably get a more informed answer if you started a separate thread in the Soldiers sub forum referencing his name and unit rather than tacking on to an old and unrelated thread.

[Guest]

Thank you Ken, I will do that. It was interesting to me because the dates worked out that he was enlisted or drafted (I am new to this  ) in December 2018 so a bit late and I am assuming there was a reason to be signed up at that point. I am pretty curious. I think that his Battalion before him were very active, had a lot of casualties, and that is why they were enlisted so late,, from 1917 on. I am wondering if he was sent overseas or was active in any way.

Thank you again Ken, I appreciate your help!

Kim

[Alan24]

19 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 soldiers drafted after the Armistice in the UK were simply sent home. 

I wonder if some went on to serve in the BAOR?

I believe that some Young Soldier battalions did go to Germany in 1919.

[kenf48]

 

4 hours ago, Alan24 said:

I wonder if some went on to serve in the BAOR?

I believe that some Young Soldier battalions did go to Germany in 1919.

 I did not intend my brevity to be misleading. The war diaries show drafts were being received by units in F & F long after the Armistice.  They were already in the system.  

It may have been a minority who were sent home after the Armistice in November 1918 but the demobilisation was perceived  to be unfair and shambolic.  Men who had been conscripted ' for the duration of the war' and could not see why the Army held on to them.  It was exacerbated by the fact certain occupational groups, e.g. coal miners were the first to be released irrespective of their duration of military service.  As always the great British public considered the issues to be one of 'fairness',  and adhered tot the 'first in first out ' principle.  The lack of adherence to this principle led to well documented mutinies and strikes amongst those still serving both overseas and in the UK.

On the 11th December 1918 Lloyd George in an election speech in Bristol announced the Military Service Act (i.e. the enabling 1916 Act as amended) would lapse.  This was largely in response to unfounded allegations of a 'conscript plot', misinformation spread in Welsh by a Welsh speaking Labour politician who claimed the government intended to see two million conscripts in uniform for the next four years.

The 'khaki election' was held on the 14th December 1918 and the repeal of the Acts and an end to conscription were major election issues.  On the 13 December 1918 men over the age of 41 called up under the Military Service Act (No2) 1918 which extended the upper age limit were told, "do nothing - your demobilisation has been ordered".  After the election the Tribunals and appeal process under the Act(s) ceased to operate by the end of the month, as these were a fundamental part of the process it's difficult to see how conscription could continue and was effectively abolished in practice if not by statute by the incoming Coalition Government.

The Army introduced a Bounty system to recruit young men for the peacetime army, and the continuation of the war in Russia, we have seen many times on here many serving soldiers, especially, another generalisation younger ones, availed themselves of the opportunity.  They came forward in such numbers that it was announced post election there was no danger of conscription continuing.

Eventually the Military Service Acts lapsed As the Act(s) were emergency legislation it was not thought necessary to repeal them, "as they will automatically lapse on the official termination of the war" (Churchill Hansard September 1920).   A formal end to conscription came on the 31 March 1920 when all conscripts were released from the Class "Z" Reserve.  I believe the Acts finally, and it appears quietly came of the statute books in 1927.

15 hours ago, Kim H said:

Thank you Ken, I will do that. It was interesting to me because the dates worked out that he was enlisted or drafted (I am new to this  ) in December 2018 so a bit late and I am assuming there was a reason to be signed up at that point. I am pretty curious. I think that his Battalion before him were very active, had a lot of casualties, and that is why they were enlisted so late,, from 1917 on. I am wondering if he was sent overseas or was active in any way.

You're welcome.

As originally stated in my less detailed response, the above was broadly the situation in the UK.

I have no knowledge of what was happening to post- Armistice recruits in Canada which is why I suggested a separate thread as this one refers to the Military Service Acts as enacted by the UK Parliament.

 It was reported in the UK that by April 1919, in the context of the sorry British experience and continuing controversy regarding demobilisation that over 117,000 Canadian troops had been demobilised and sent home.  Compared to the UK experience the Canadian process of post war demobilisation does appear to have been better organised, acknowledging it was a much smaller number and circumstances were very different - they did not have an Empire to police.

I did find this link to the operation of conscription in Canada, as in Australia and the UK, it appears to have been a toxic and disputed political issue. Hope you find it useful

https://www.warmuseum.ca/firstworldwar/history/life-at-home-during-the-war/recruitment-and-conscription/conscription-1917/

 

[Alan24]

7 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The war diaries show drafts were being received by units in F & F long after the Armistice.  They were already in the system.  

Thank you Ken.

I always enjoy reading your very informative posts regarding enlistment and, in this case, demobilisation.