Use of Pre-dreadnoughts after 1914

[nastle]

With the advent of dreadnought classes of battleships obviously the previous battleships were considered obsolete , so if you were an admiral in any european navy and you have 10+ of their pre-dreadnoughts in service at the start of the war which roles would you assign them ?

 

Can they operate with other dreadnoughts in the main line ? germans had them as late as jutland , only one was lost

 

Shore bombardment ?

 

Can they fight armored cruisers of the enemy ?

 

Can they cover minelaying/mine -sweeping operations of friendly forces ?

 

Serve as coastal defence battleships ?

 

escort merchant convoys to protect them from enemy light cruisers  ?

 

can 2-3 pre-dreadnoughts team up to take out one dreadnought ?

 

Thanks 

Edited 22 May , 2020 by nastle

[PRC]

For a start Wikipedia has this on their actual use in WW1 - usage which would reflect the relevant countries naval strategies.

 

During World War I, a large number of pre-dreadnoughts remained in service. The advances in machinery and armament meant that a pre-dreadnought was not necessarily the equal of even a modern armoured cruiser, and was totally outclassed by a modern dreadnought battleship or battlecruiser. Nevertheless, the pre-dreadnought played a major role in the war.

 

This was first illustrated in the skirmishes between British and German navies around South America in 1914. While two German cruisers menaced British shipping, the Admiralty insisted that no battlecruisers could be spared from the main fleet and sent to the other side of the world to deal with them. Instead the British dispatched a pre-dreadnought of 1896 vintage, HMS Canopus. Intended to stiffen the British cruisers in the area, in fact her slow speed meant that she was left behind at the disastrous Battle of Coronel. Canopus redeemed herself at the Battle of the Falkland Islands, but only when grounded to act as a harbour-defence vessel; she fired at extreme range (13,500 yards) on the German cruiser SMS Gneisenau, and while the only hit was from an inert practice shell which had been left loaded from the previous night (the 'live' shells of the salvo broke up on contact with water; one inert shell ricocheted into one of Gneisenau's funnels), this certainly deterred Gneisenau from a potentially damaging raid on a British squadron which was still taking on coal. The subsequent battle was decided by the two Invincible-class battlecruisers which had been dispatched after Coronel. This appears to have been the only meaningful engagement of an enemy ship by a British pre-dreadnought.

 

In the Black Sea five Russian pre-dreadnoughts saw brief action against the Ottoman battlecruiser Yavuz during the Battle of Cape Sarych in November 1914.

 

The principle that disposable pre-dreadnoughts could be used where no modern ship could be risked was affirmed by British, French and German navies in subsidiary theatres of war.

 

The German navy used its pre-dreadnoughts frequently in the Baltic campaign. However, the largest number of pre-dreadnoughts was engaged at the Gallipoli campaign. Twelve British and French pre-dreadnoughts formed the bulk of the force which attempted to 'force the Dardanelles' in March 1915. The role of the pre-dreadnoughts was to support the brand-new dreadnought HMS Queen Elizabeth engaging the Turkish shore defences. Three of the pre-dreadnoughts were sunk by mines, and several more badly damaged. However, it was not the damage to the pre-dreadnoughts which led to the operation being called off. The two battlecruisers were also damaged; since Queen Elizabeth could not be risked in the minefield, and the pre-dreadnoughts would be unable to deal with the Turkish battlecruiser lurking on the other side of the straits, the operation had failed. Pre-dreadnoughts were also used to support the Gallipoli landings, with the loss of three more: HMS Goliath, HMS Triumph and HMS Majestic.

 

A squadron of German pre-dreadnoughts was present at the Battle of Jutland in 1916; German sailors called them the "five-minute ships", which was the amount of time they were expected to survive in a pitched battle. In spite of their limitations, the pre-dreadnought squadron played a useful role. As the German fleet disengaged from the battle, the pre-dreadnoughts risked themselves by turning on the British battlefleet as dark set. Nevertheless, only one of the pre-dreadnoughts was sunk: SMS Pommern went down in the confused night action as the battlefleets disengaged.

 

Following the November 1918 Armistice, the U.S. Navy converted fifteen older battleships, eight armoured cruisers and two larger protected cruisers for temporary service as transports. These ships made one to six trans-Atlantic round-trips each, bringing home a total of more than 145,000 passengers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-dreadnought_battleship

 

There is also lots of little snippets along the way as you read through the fate of individual pre-dreadnought battleships - sunk as blockships, used for accomodation\depot ships, broken up and equipment redistributed, repair ships and ammunition ships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pre-dreadnought_battleships_of_the_Royal_Navy

 

All to a certain extent forseeable from the start of the war and following the natural cycle of redundancy of such weapons as they no longer represented cutting edge technology.

 

Hope that gets you started,

Peter

 

[RNCVR]

In addition to the information Peter has supplied above, have a read of :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pre-dreadnought_battleships_of_the_Royal_Navy

 

This article gives a good idea of the employment of the various classes of pre Dreadought B\S prior to & during 1WW.

 

Best Wishes!

Bryan

[Ron Clifton]

The two German pre-dreadnoughts Schlesien and Schleswig-Holstein were used in WW2 as coast defence ships in the Baltic.

 

Gernerally, this type of ship was not normally used in line with newer ships, such as at Jutland, although the Germans used six there, as already mentioned.

 

At Gallipoli, there is mention of the use of "some of His Majesty's least valuable ships" (or words to that effect) to force the Narrows against shore bombardment and mines, resulting in a few sinkings.

 

Ron

[rolt968]

The King Edward VII class started the war in the grand fleet, going to the Nore in 1916.

RM

[nastle]

thanks for all the suggestions so it seems like the Pre-D were quite important in ww1 era naval warfare esp pre-1917 

 

In Jutland only one german pre-D perished and these ships gave valuable service throughout 1914-1917, the french pre-D or "semi-dreadnoughts " seem particularly interesting as they were almost similar in firepower to early [pre-1912] dreadnoughts  

 

Esp for navies with smaller coastline like germany, A-H and Russia it seemed like they were quite useful in defensive role given that their lack of speed was not so much an issue, their firepower can be supplemented by shore batteries and enemies dreadnoughts can be harassed by mine and torpedo boats and channeled into tactical situations that minimized their drawbacks.WHat do you guys think ? 

[Darloboy]

The A-H navy used its PDs mainly for Shore bombardment and in 1918 SMS Habsburg had her forward turret replaced with a 38cm Howitzer to hit the Italian front line near Venice.

By the end of the war though most of the older PDs were depot or accommodation ships.