LindaL Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 My Great Uncle Thomas Brown (born 1896 in Gateshead and lived in Sunderland) 22-1652 Pte, served with 22nd Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers / 3rd Tyneside Scottish during the Somme and was invalided out due to losing a leg.I can't find anything about him apart from his medal card which states he received the SWB,Victory and British medals (no Star?) also the L.E.S.M.A. Can anyone of you lovely people point me in the direction of where else to look? Thank you Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 If there is no star he didn't enter a theatre of war prior to 1/1/16, it is still possible he was in the army before then but unlikely to have left the UK. Have you tried reading the Long Long Trail linked above? Full of facts, information and most importantly details on where to begin your search. At the risk of stating something you know the SWB is the Silver War Badge received to be worn on civilian after demobilisation indicating honourable discharge by sickness or injury. The LESMA badge is just that, a badge rather than a medal. It shows he was a member of the Limbless Ex Servicemans Assoctiation. I don't know about this outfit but they presumably dealt with the specifics of amputee veterans rather than a general service association to support ex service men. I do know that some of the early associations eventually were absorbed/amalgamated into what became the British Legion. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 1 hour ago, LindaL said: 22nd Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers / 3rd Tyneside Scottish Long, Long Trail has this for that battalion :- 22nd (Service) Battalion (3rd Tyneside Scottish) Formed at Newcastle, 5 November 1914, by the Lord Mayor and City.. June 1915 : came under orders of 102nd Brigade, 34th Division. Landed in France in January 1916. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/northumberland-fusiliers/ So even if he was with them from the outset of his time in the Army, he would not have qualified for the 1914/15 Star. 1 hour ago, LindaL said: Can anyone of you lovely people point me in the direction of where else to look? Do you already subscribe to Ancestry or FindMyPast? - I assume you have already looked to see if there are any surviving service records. If not, and you live in the UK and have a valid public library card it may be worthwhile checking out the website of your local library service to see whats available. Some have negotiated home access to either Ancestry or FindMyPast. Many also have access already to JSTOR to allow free downloads of academic papers - I see there is one on the Northumberland Fusiliers on the Somme. https://www.jstor.org/stable/44232752?seq=1 The Divisional History “The 34th Division. The story of its career from Ripon to the Rhine, 1915 – 1919. By LIEUT.-COLONEL J. SHAKESPEAR C.M.G., C.I.E., D.S.O. can be read online http://www.generalist.org.uk/ocr/BK_09084_b_46.txt The Battalion War diary, although very unlikely to mention him by name, can currently be downloaded for free if you register an account with the National Archive. I believe that is the one you need. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353907 There is at least one expert on the forum on the Tyneside Scottish so probably worth tagging this thread and also having a search. My interest comes from the Field Companies of the Royal Engineers of the 34th Division which were raised in Norfolk. Are you looking for anything specific? Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 Libraries currently shut Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 This may not be true everywhere but here in Staffordshire you can log in to the library system from home using your ticket number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 16 minutes ago, mancpal said: Libraries currently shut Simon 22 minutes ago, PRC said: checking out the website of your local library service to see whats available. Some have negotiated home access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 His SWB shows enlisted 20 Apr 1915, Discharged 20 Mar 1918 His pension card gives his injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 Sorry, missed that bit Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 The medal award roll lists also 9th Battalion NF as does the Northumberland Fusiliers register on Findmypast. The award roll seems, like many, not to follow the standard protocol in terms of which battalion he served in first. . The NF register would suggest 22 Bn then 9 Bn then Depot (from where he was discharged). Does the pension record show a battalion? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 33 minutes ago, MaxD said: Does the pension record show a battalion? No, there are 3 Pension Cards, none have Battalion. But they give 2 addresses However FmP has a NF transcript that gives Transfer to/from To 9th('B' Coy)Bn & N.F.Depot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 May , 2020 Share Posted 20 May , 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, MaxD said: The NF register would suggest 22 Bn then 9 Bn then Depot (from where he was discharged). CWGC lists 333 members of the Northumberland Fusiliers who died and have a service number commencing 22/ After looking at the first 60 I stopped - they were all 22nd Tyneside Scottish until April\May 1917 when they started turning up occasionally with other Battalions However is it possible he was initally wounded \ fell ill \ was accidentally injured with the 22nd, recovered, was then posted to the 9th in 1917 /1918 and then incurred the injuries which led to the amputation and his administrative transfer to the Depot? Has anyone had any luck with finding him on the casualty list(s)? Cheers, Peter Edited 21 May , 2020 by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 21 May , 2020 Share Posted 21 May , 2020 A very plausible scenario Peter. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaL Posted 21 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2020 Thank you all.I'm with Ancestry but they keep forwarding me onto 3 fold for more information then it comes up with nothing.I can't find ANY records at all apart from his medal card.This letter was with his medals his grandaughter sent me the photos yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaL Posted 21 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2020 Checked our library too and they don't do remote access sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 21 May , 2020 Share Posted 21 May , 2020 Has anyone pointed out that 60% of service records were lost to bombing during WW2. The odds are always against finding a record. As you have Ancestry, the medal award roll (which goes with the card) is here: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_626640_11546-00048?backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsse.dll%3F_phsrc%3DdVB3716%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26gsln%3Dbrown%26cp%3D0%26_F4E2F07A%3D22-1652%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D6x5%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D749837%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1%26queryId%3D8ad454e31be6a26f9e5028b2af9bd976&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=8ad454e31be6a26f9e5028b2af9bd976&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dVB3716&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=749837 As the letter has some officers' names a bit of scrutiny of the 22 NF war diary for July 1916 onward would be a good idea (there was no DCM - this has been checked).Again you can read that at: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60779/images/43849_2463_1-00027?backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsse.dll%3F_phsrc%3DdVB3717%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D60779%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3D2463%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D6x5%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D629577%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1%26queryId%3D814972029fb0e9b4bb9804fb4aea8be7&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=814972029fb0e9b4bb9804fb4aea8be7&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dVB3717&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=629577 I have quickly looked and see neither of the names, you may have more luck. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 22 May , 2020 Share Posted 22 May , 2020 Looking at the 22nd NF War Diary, they were involved in the heavy fighting at Arras in April 1917, which might support Peter's scenario of wounded men being posted on recovery to other battalions from that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaL Posted 22 May , 2020 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2020 Thanks all,lots more researching and reading to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy163 Posted 20 May , 2021 Share Posted 20 May , 2021 Thank you all for sharing what you have found , i'm not very good at research but this evening I have read the the account of the 3rd Tyneside Scottish. My Great Grandfather died on the 1st July 1916 first day of the Somme. I never knew him but I am so proud of him and the sacrifice that he made. Private William Scott s/no 22/1565 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers who died on 01 July 1916 Age 31 Son of Thomas and Elizabeth Scott, of 1, Testla St., Electric Crescent, Philadelphia; husband of Eve Cutts (formerlyScott), of 6, Mount Pleasant, New Penshaw, Philadelphia, Co.Durham. Remembered with Honour THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Pier and Face 10 B11 Band 12 B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toontraveller Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 If you get the opportunity it’s very much worth reading the book Tyneside Scottish (20- 23 rd (Service) Battalions of the Northumberland Fusiliers by Graham Stewart and John Sheen.( ISBN 0 85052 631-0) and also The story of the Tyneside Scottish by Brigadier - General Trevor Terran C.B., C.M.G., D.S.O. Published originally around 1924 but now available as a reprint at Naval and Military press (ISBN 1- 84342 - 480 0)which explain the formation and movement whilst in a France up to The Battle of Arras in April 1917. It was on sale recently for about £8. Graham Stewart and John Sheens book include both soldiers mentioned above in the posts, in the nominal roll at the rear of their book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 (edited) Find My Past, under 'British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers' Medical Records' records that he was admitted to No. 34 Casualty Clearing Station on the 3 July 1916 with GSW to his left shoulder. He was evacuated by AT (Ambulance Train) on the 5 July 1916. The entry records that he was with the 22 Northumberland Fusiliers and that he was in 'B' Company. The entry also shows that he had 15 months Army service, of that were 6 months field service. The service info would indicate that he enlisted circa March/April 1915 with field service starting January 1916 Edited 21 May , 2021 by Allan1892 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 48 minutes ago, Allan1892 said: Find My Past, under 'British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers' Medical Records' records that he was admitted to No. 34 Casualty Clearing Station on the 3 July 1916 with GSW to his left shoulder. He was evacuated by AT (Ambulance Train) on the 5 July 1916. The entry records that he was with the 22 Northumberland Fusiliers and that he was in 'B' Company. The entry also shows that he had 15 months Army service, of that were 6 months field service. The service info would indicate that he enlisted circa March/April 1915 with field service starting January 1916 Who was admitted to the CCS on the 3rd July Brown or Scott ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 Thomas Brown. When I first read the post, I didn't pick up that it was from May 2020 hence my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toontraveller Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 Raysearching, I suspect it is Thomas Brown 22-1652 as the other soldier mentioned in this thread William Scott 22 - 1565 killed on 1 st July 1916. Interesting as it is the same Casualty Clearing Station my Great Grandfather 24 th NF( 1st Tyneside Irish) was taken to after being shot on the 1 st July 1916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 Thanks Allan +Toon traveller Then this may be a photo of Thomas Brown reported as wounded in the Illustrated Chronicle on the 10th July 1916 (the date it appeared in the I/C ) Ray Edit I have sent Linda a message she may be able to confirm or disprove it is the T Brown in question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy163 Posted 22 May , 2021 Share Posted 22 May , 2021 On 21/05/2021 at 06:21, Toontraveller said: If you get the opportunity it’s very much worth reading the book Tyneside Scottish (20- 23 rd (Service) Battalions of the Northumberland Fusiliers by Graham Stewart and John Sheen.( ISBN 0 85052 631-0) and also The story of the Tyneside Scottish by Brigadier - General Trevor Terran C.B., C.M.G., D.S.O. Published originally around 1924 but now available as a reprint at Naval and Military press (ISBN 1- 84342 - 480 0)which explain the formation and movement whilst in a France up to The Battle of Arras in April 1917. It was on sale recently for about £8. Graham Stewart and John Sheens book include both soldiers mentioned above in the posts, in the nominal roll at the rear of their book. Thanks for the recommendation , i've ordered both books , already had one coming and just ordered The story of the Tyneside Scottish . That really helpful Toontraveller are you job or ex job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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