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Remembered Today:

fred smith 15055 8th east surreys


Simon Tindall

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guys continuing my mission to trace my family who served I have my great granddad (dad mothers side) to find information on

I believe  he served in the 8th East surrey regiment service number 15055   my dad recalls him having a damaged arm which makes me wonder if he was injured any info would be great   again trying to locate his medals   thanks everyone in advance

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Where have you obtained your info from so anyone helping you isn't going over old ground? Also if you have any other details however trivial they may seem it could help.

 

Simon

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Hi Mancpal

The only information I have is my  great granddads Death cert and my great aunties birth cert which is dated 1918 and it states  my great grandfathers occupation as Private 8th BN east surrey regiment, further to that he may of got injured at war as my father vaguely remembers he had a "dodgy" arm that's all I know at present     

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Hi Simon

Medal award roll shows he was with the 13th before the 8th East Surrey. Silver War Badge roll shows he enlisted 7.12.15 and discharged 19.4.19. SWB No. B218542 Frederick Smith Pte.15055....looking

Regards Barry

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6 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi Simon

Medal award roll shows he was with the 13th before the 8th East Surrey. Silver War Badge roll shows he enlisted 7.12.15 and discharged 19.4.19. SWB No. B218542 Frederick Smith Pte.15055....looking

Regards Barry

Thank you so he started in the 13th ? interesting   so its likely my fathers recollection of an injury is correct   fascinating

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Fred Smith 15055 appears as wounded, East Surrey Regt, in the daily Casualty List of 26/9/18 which suggests he was wounded perhaps 4 weeks earlier. It also tells us he was from Earlsfield, SW (or his NoK). link here on findmypast

 

Since the 13th Bn returned to England in June 1918 it is safe to presume Fred was wounded with the 8th Bn. A look at their war diary may help gain an idea of what was happening at that date (ie c 26/8/18)  but I would not normally expect him to be mentioned by name.

 

Charlie

 

edit-  can you tell us when he was born ? There are possible entries in Surrey Recruitment Ledgers which need to be checked.

Edited by charlie962
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31 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Fred Smith 15055 appears as wounded, East Surrey Regt, in the daily Casualty List of 26/9/18 which suggests he was wounded perhaps 4 weeks earlier. It also tells us he was from Earlsfield, SW (or his NoK). link here on findmypast

 

Since the 13th Bn returned to England in June 1918 it is safe to presume Fred was wounded with the 8th Bn. A look at their war diary may help gain an idea of what was happening at that date (ie c 26/8/18)  but I would not normally expect him to be mentioned by name.

 

Charlie

 

edit-  can you tell us when he was born ? There are possible entries in Surrey Recruitment Ledgers which need to be checked.

Thank you

Earlsfield sounds right as my father has his Grand parents address as spear forth street which is in Earlfield and my father was raised in Wandsworth so I am sure that's correct 

 

His death was fifteenth May 1963 aged 79 so that's around 1884 as a birth year don't have his actual dob sorry hope this helps  

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attempting to look at war diaries I think the 8th were in or fighting in a place called MAMETZ WOOD LOMGVEVAL?? around late August 1918  lots of casualties but no lower ranks named

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Mametz and Longueval are a mile or so apart on the Somme. Mametz saw heavy fighting throughout July 1916 and of course at other times. I regularly use Google Earth to see places in relation to each other and street view is excellent to get a feel for the terrain. It amazes me that after a century of farming that the telltale zig-zags of trenches are still visible in some sectors and former craters  (Messine/Wytschaete) in Belgium.

 

Simon

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its all pretty amazing when you start looking I am still trying to find out more details on Fred I see the 13th Bn was a hostilities only regiment and the 8th Bn were involved in a few well known battles curious to understand the injuries he received      

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Simon

I don't know if you've noticed on some other threads that it is now possible to overlay trench maps onto Google Earth meaning its possible to stand within yards of where our ancestors once stood. The whole WW1 thing is addictive.

As a died in the wool Luddite I find the technology available mind blowing and suspect that had someone suggested such innovation a few centuries back it may have ended with the ducking stool.

 

Simon

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4 hours ago, Simon Tindall said:

Thank you

Earlsfield sounds right as my father has his Grand parents address as spear forth street which is in Earlfield and my father was raised in Wandsworth so I am sure that's correct 

 

His death was fifteenth May 1963 aged 79 so that's around 1884 as a birth year don't have his actual dob sorry hope this helps  

Hi Simon, Charlie and all

Frederick's date of birth was 23rd April. 1884. 1939 register at 14 STEERFORTH St., with Lily b.14.6.1885 and Lilian 8.6.1908.

The address on Probate is 14 Steerforth St., ,London SW18.  Searching for the family, frequently throws up facts not known by those searching, if you can give me some more details. Who was Daisy Cox?

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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Hi All

1911 census Frederick and family at 3 Home Road, Battersea.  His occ. Chintz Glazer....looking

Regards Barry

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2 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Hi Simon, Charlie and all

Frederick's date of birth was 23rd April. 1884. 1939 register at 14 STEERFORTH St., with Lily b.14.6.1885 and Lilian 8.6.1908.

The address on Probate is 14 Steerforth St., ,London SW18.  Searching for the family, frequently throws up facts not known by those searching, if you can give me some more details. Who was Daisy Cox?

Regards Barry

Hi Barry

Daisy cox is my great aunty my nans (Doris)  sister I believe fred had sons  too but not sure of details

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Simon, was this where you saw the war diary (queensroyalsurreys.org) ? Courtesy of their site, I suspect he was amongst these 74 wounded ?

 

1388356649_GWF8EastSurrey27Aug1918.JPG.3edcc7f080e8eb33cd0d47ac0e8df717.JPG

 

Thanks for the birth date, Inspector, it eliminates all those I'd found !

 

Charlie

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Using the same link above, the 13th Bn War Diary is here and they suffered very heavily on 9/4/18 when the Bn was surrounded. I wonder if Fred was still with 13th Bn at this time and one of the lucky survivors ?

Charlie

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Charlie,

What does "battle surplus" mean? I'm assuming troops but haven't come across the phrase and would love to know the origin,

 

Simon

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6 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Simon, was this where you saw the war diary (queensroyalsurreys.org) ? Courtesy of their site, I suspect he was amongst these 74 wounded ?

 

1388356649_GWF8EastSurrey27Aug1918.JPG.3edcc7f080e8eb33cd0d47ac0e8df717.JPG

 

Thanks for the birth date, Inspector, it eliminates all those I'd found !

 

Charlie

Yes Charlie based on the information re casualty report I went one month previous to around this date and guessing this is where he may of sustained his war ending injury possibly? 

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5 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Using the same link above, the 13th Bn War Diary is here and they suffered very heavily on 9/4/18 when the Bn was surrounded. I wonder if Fred was still with 13th Bn at this time and one of the lucky survivors ?

Charlie

he had a substantial injury according to what my dad remembers and it was spoken about that he wasn't a drinker before the war but loved his ale after and bad tempered and would routinely crack his Cane across peoples heels if they were in his way on the way to the pub   a character by all accounts  desperately trying to piece fragments of information together from family members  and need to look up if he had any brothers that served

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On 16/05/2020 at 21:03, Simon Tindall said:

Hi Barry

Daisy cox is my great aunty my nans (Doris)  sister I believe fred had sons  too but not sure of details

Hi Simon

FYI:-

Fred(erick) had two sons living in 1911, Frederick born Kensington, aged 6 yrs and Edward born Battersea. aged 1. Census shows two children had died. Been married 7 yrs.

Regards Barry

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4 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Hi Simon

FYI:-

Fred(erick) had two sons living in 1911, Frederick born Kensington, aged 6 yrs and Edward born Battersea. aged 1. Census shows two children had died. Been married 7 yrs.

Regards Barry

Thanks Barry

I will try and look these up and see what there story is I am sure there is one interesting  great grand parents up to now    is there anything more on freds military exploits I can find do you think?  you guys seem to be tuned into where to look

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On 17/05/2020 at 19:29, mancpal said:

What does "battle surplus" mean? I'm assuming troops but haven't come across the phrase and would love to know the origin

Exactly what I would ask !

Charlie

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1 hour ago, Simon Tindall said:

is there anything more on freds military exploits I can find do you think? 

One source that is not yet available is the pension records for the majority of wounded that were discharged with a Silver War Badge, like Fred. These cards are in process of being digitised so there may be something available in the next year or two ? It won't tell you when he transferred 13th to 8th but it may give a little more about his wound. Of course the record may not have survived ! The point is it is always worth searching again a couple of years later.

 

I've tried having a look at near service numbers for clues, as well as at some of the others that appear on the same casualty list. A bit of a superficial search though and it did not yield anything that looked useful. If you have a lot of spare time you can try being more thorough in this but then again you may come to no conclusion. But you will learn about military records and other soldiers' lives in the process which I always find fascinating.

 

Good luck.

Charlie

 

Barry will prompt you through the family route no doubt and you just never know what may turn up.

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Charlie, I've just re-read the 'battle surplus' bit and now wonder if it means items recovered from the field that were sent back with the relieved (very I expect) battalion to be cleaned, repaired and reissued, the 'exchange' being required kit brought up by the replacements.

Wild guesswork again.

 

Simon

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