Pre Great War discharge coding.

[Paul Bellis]

I hope this is okay to post as it's not strictly from the Great War. I have an ancestor who was briefly in the 3rd South Lancashire Regiment. He joined in 1905 and was discharged in 1909. There is some coding relating to his discharge, so I'm hoping someone on here could help, or at least point me to a site that could help decipher it. I've had great difficulty tracing this man, I don't know whether he rejoined in 1914 as i can't find any other information about his life after this particular military record. Here's hoping, thank you for any input.

[ss002d6252]

The Special Army Order of 23 Dec 1907 was the order that abolished the militia and created the special reserve.

 

He had been a member of the militia who elected to serve on after they were abolished so para 59 of the order is something to do with former miltia men continuing to serve under old terms and then being discharged.

 

What was his full name and where was he from ?

 

Craig

[Paul Bellis]

Thank you for the prompt reply Craig. I have no knowledge of Militias so your information is very useful to me. He was called Thomas Sharples, he was my great Uncle and was born in 1886 in Ditton, Widnes, Lancashire (now Cheshire). I can't find any First World War records for him and I couldn't find him in the 1911 census so this is my only clue as to what he was up to. I'll attach the other pages to see if it gives more information that i don't recognise.

Paul

[themonsstar]

He was a big Lad 5"10 at 18 years old.

[squirrel]

But only just over 10 stones.

[Paul Bellis]

12 hours ago, squirrel said:

But only just over 10 stones.

I think he was skinnier than that. 119lbs is roughly 8 1/2 stone I think? He had a 34 inch chest too, seems he was a proper beanpole.

[squirrel]

2 hours ago, Paul Bellis said:

I think he was skinnier than that. 119lbs is roughly 8 1/2 stone I think? He had a 34 inch chest too, seems he was a proper beanpole.

Quite right, my maths was a bit shaky. While taller than average by today's standards a bit on the light side for an iron foundry labourer. 

[FROGSMILE]

The vast majority of men from the urban classes that the bulk of the Army generally came from had much smaller frames then due to poor nutrition.  There was so much concern about the recruiting difficulties it caused during the 2nd Boer War that afterwards there was a formal inquiry.  There are interesting references to this:

 

1. https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1903/mar/25/army-enlistments

 

2.  http://www.educationengland.org.uk/documents/fitzroy1904/index.html

 

NB.  The situation recurred in the 1930s following the Great Recession and was not finally resolved until that introduction of the welfare state after WW2.

Edited 22 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

On 15/05/2020 at 12:35, Paul Bellis said:

Thank you for the prompt reply Craig. I have no knowledge of Militias so your information is very useful to me. He was called Thomas Sharples, he was my great Uncle and was born in 1886 in Ditton, Widnes, Lancashire (now Cheshire). I can't find any First World War records for him and I couldn't find him in the 1911 census so this is my only clue as to what he was up to. I'll attach the other pages to see if it gives more information that i don't recognise.

Paul

 

 

You can read about the Militia via the following links Paul:

 

1. https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/52092/Handlist72militiaandvolunteers.pdf

 

2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_Kingdom)

 

 

[Paul Bellis]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

You can read about the Militia via the following links Paul:

 

1. https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/52092/Handlist72militiaandvolunteers.pdf

 

2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_Kingdom)

 

 

Thank you for that Frogsmile. Very interesting reading. The other links you posted definitely could explain his physique and also it seems these Militiamen found it difficult to get employment, so it may explain his time in prison. I'm wondering if that's where he ended up after his discharge? I can't find any Great War records for him, but I'm guessing that doesn't mean a great deal as some records were destroyed I think.

[FROGSMILE]

54 minutes ago, Paul Bellis said:

Thank you for that Frogsmile. Very interesting reading. The other links you posted definitely could explain his physique and also it seems these Militiamen found it difficult to get employment, so it may explain his time in prison. I'm wondering if that's where he ended up after his discharge? I can't find any Great War records for him, but I'm guessing that doesn't mean a great deal as some records were destroyed I think.

Three fifths of the records were destroyed and many of the surviving two fifths smoke and water damaged apparently.

 

The times were really hard for men of the lower working classes at that time, in a way that collective memory of the contemporary populace doesn’t really grasp I think.  It’s not impossible that he went in prison again, or he might have suffered one of the many endemic diseases that plagued people living in poor conditions.  The vast majority of men from these so-called lower orders were labourers in irregular work and often living hand-to-mouth.  There’s no such thing as the ‘good old days’.  

 

N.B.  It was even worse for women.

Edited 22 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE