Removal from command of Dr. J.D. Gimlette 1917 hospital ship Essequibbo

[John Gilinsky]

Does anyone know the history as to why Dr  Gimlette commanding the hospital ship Essequibo was removed from command whilst this ship was in Singapore?  

 

National Archives U K reference:   FCO 141/16036    1917

Thanks

[ForeignGong]

He has written a book

Malay Poisons and Charm Cures. By Dr. John D. Gimlette. 2nd Edition. Churchill, 1923.

[frev]

According to the War Diary, he actually handed over command whilst the ship was at Liverpool - no reason given:

 

HMHS Essequibo War Diary

 

March 1917

16^th: Arrived Liverpool – berthed at Canada Dock

17^th: At Canada dock Liverpool, repairing.

19^th Commenced “handing over” to Major Home, W.E., RAMC, with Major Wilson, RAMC in accordance with instructions from D.D.M.S. Southampton.

20^th Handed over charge as O.C. Troops and reverted to rank of Captain, RAMC.

[signed John D Gimlette, Major RAMC]

 

20^th: Took over stores from Major J.D. Gimlette, RAMC, and assumed charge, …….

[signed Major W.E. Home, RAMC, Officer Commanding troops]

 

Cheers, Frev

[John Gilinsky]

Thanks ForeignGong and Frev for your excellent help in your answers.  The questions encompassing medical officers commanding overall ships became especially prevalent 1914 in the USA major issues had US Congrss investigating and special legislation was passed.  Oh well still nice when members readily chip in to clarify.  Tx again John.

[seaJane]

17 hours ago, frev said:

in accordance with instructions from D.D.M.S. Southampton

 

Looks to me as if he was moving on to the next posting under instructions from the Deputy Director of Medical Services. Would he not have been Senior Medical Officer (SMO) of the hospital side rather than actually commanding the vessel? DDMS Southampton might have been asking for him at Netley Hospital.

 

There were two Gimlettes in the RN Medical Service as well...

 

sJ

 

 

Edited 15 May , 2020 by seaJane
addition

[MaureenE]

21 hours ago, ForeignGong said:

He has written a book

Malay Poisons and Charm Cures. By Dr. John D. Gimlette. 2nd Edition. Churchill, 1923.

Malay Poisons and Charm Cures is available online

https://archive.org/details/Malaypoisonscha00Giml/page/n5/mode/2up

 

The catalogue entry gives his life dates as 1867-1934  and the preface indicates that he had worked in the Federated Malay States from about 1897. He also edited

The Medical Book Of Malayan Medicine originally translated circa 1886 in Penang, edited by J D Gimlette and I H Burkill 1930. Published in The Gardens' Bulletin Straits Settlements October 1930 [Singapore: Botanic Gardens] Archive.org.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[Madmeg]

The Book above has a short self written biography in the first pages. He was working as a governenment suregon in malaya at the outbreak of war by the looks of it, was seconded into the RAMC? post 1915 (he was at Koya Bharu , Kelantan in 1915 according to the preface) and was back in Malaysia in 1919. 

Rather ironically I am reading The Thackery T Lambshead Pocket Guide to Eccentric & Discredidtd Diseases at the moment- which is a spoof of just the sort of book written by Dr Gimlette :-D

[John Gilinsky]

Tx seajane, Maureene and Madmeg for your posts and info.

[HarryBrook]

His full name was John Desmond Gimlette, died 24 April 1934.

 

Death announcement, The Times 4 May 1934.

 

[John Gilinsky]

Thanks Harry for the Times short obit from The Times dated May 4 1934 for Dr. John Desmond Gimlette who passed from us on April 24 1934 67 years old.

 

 

[JennyW]

John Desmond Gimlette (Jack) was in the Colonial Medical Service as Residency Surgeon of Pahang in the Federated Malay States (1897-1900) and then in Kelantan 1909-1921; he was given leave of absence from the CMS during WWI when he signed up with the RAMC, serving 2.4.15-2.8.19.  His first war-time posting was to the PoW camp at Dorchester (when he met his wife-to-be); he was then MO on the Essequibo and afterwards joined the German East African Expeditionary Force as protozoologist, based some of the time, I think, at Nakuru Military Hospital.  He returned to Kelantan after the war until ill health brought him back to England in 1921, to marriage and becoming a father in his late 60s.

He was my grandfather, and the two medical Gimlettes in the RN spotted by seajane were one of his older brothers and his nephew - is there anything else you'd like to know about him?

 

Jack is third from the right in the front row.

[JennyW]

Correcting a typo - Jack was in his late 50s when he first became a father.

[John Gilinsky]

Thanks so much Jenny for taking the time and your consideration in posting some family photo material.  I am most interested in his WW1 war related services especially his hospital ship services.  Do you have any materials such as letters, diaries, souvenirs, postcards, photos, ephemera etc... that deal with at least in part his war time and in particular his hospital ship experiences.

Tx

John

 

[JennyW]

I haven't got much about his hospital war experiences I'm afraid - for obvious reasons his experiences in the PoW camp are of more family interest - but I'll attach a photos of him in uniform in 1918 and a picture of the ship.  You might be interested in this biographical article, but again, little about his ship experiences:  

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/o10.1177/096777209800600407

In his retirement he did write a part one to his memoirs, up to 1895 (unpublished), but his retirement was short, his health was poor by then and he was kept busy both revising his "Malay Poisons and Charm Cures" for the second and third editions and also writing the majority of "A Dictionary of Malayan Medicine" (JDG and HW Thomson OUP 1939) - until his death interrupted proceedings and Thomson completed it.

I'm curious to understand your interest in JDG...? 

Good wishes,

Jenny

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

This site never ceases to amaze me - someone posts with an enquiry about a man surrendering his role on a hospital ship, and, lo and behold, the granddaughter of the man in question is able to join the conversation and give his full career history. I assume, Jenny W., that you happened to google either the name of your grandfather or his book, and stumbled across this thread? 

My grandfather (mentioned in my signature below) was a patient on the Essequibo, but sadly I am not able to picture him being under the care of your grandfather, as it was not until August 1918, when he was returning to Britain with a broken ankle. He included a postcard with a photograph of the Essequibo in his diary. Though publication of the photograph is not endorsed as having been officially sanctioned by the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty as yours is, I have always assumed that the postcard was made available for purchase to those who travelled on the ship. The postcard has not been sent through the post, but on the reverse it is endorsed in manuscript "August 1917, G. Taylor, wounded St Julien 31st July 1917." That is a little confusing, as my grandfather mentions that there was a Taylor in the next cot to him, a man with one arm and one leg who was "very cheery and full of beans at the thought of at last getting to Blighty after many months at N^o 2 B.R.C." but was this the Taylor mentioned on the back of the postcard, given the 1917 date, or did my grandfather acquire it from another Taylor later? Anyway, whichever it was, it seems that the voyage of the Mr Taylor mentioned on the reverse of the postcard was also too late for him to have been under the care of your grandfather.

[John Gilinsky]

Thanks so much JennyW and A Lancashire Lad by Proxy for your posts above.  I researched hospital ships from around the world in the 1990s and early 21st century.  I have the postcard in question that you reproduce in my own collection.  However it was the apparently mistaken report in the TNA online materials that JDG was court-martialed as CO of the Essequibo that caught my attention since my fundamental focus now and for many years is war trauma.  I am especially fascinated by medical personnel who may or were traumatized by their war experiences.  I am glad Lancashire Lad you found my thread useful for your own genealogical purposes.  Best wishes and tanks again to both of you for your consideration and thoughtfulness in your posts.

John

[JennyW]

Hello again John Gilinsky.  Your researches into traumatized medical personnel sound most interesting.  Of course, I'm interested in the rumour that you uncovered about my grandfather possibly being court-martialed.  I have looked through all the records that I have inherited, and also tried to find the TNA materials that you mentioned (but am a bit of a novice at online searching) to see if there is anything in this rumour.  But no, nothing suggesting that has come to light.  Indeed, the obituaries I have for JDG - in respectable journals by noteworthy authors (where they mention his short time on the Essequibo) - imply that it was a time of distinguished service.  I'd be interested to know more about the TNA report you have seen and perhaps I can "clear my grandfather's name"!

Jenny

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Jenny

 

Just in case you don't have a copy of your Grandfather's Medal Index Card, here it is courtesy of Ancestry. First theatre of war Suvla Bay (part of the Gallipoli campaign)

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

 

 

 

 

[JennyW]

3 hours ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi Jenny

 

Just in case you don't have a copy of your Grandfather's Medal Index Card, here it is courtesy of Ancestry. First theatre of war Suvla Bay (part of the Gallipoli campaign)

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

 

 

 

 

Thank you, Derek, I hadn't seen this but knew that my grandfather had been awarded medals in WW1 - it hadn't occurred to me to wonder why!  It explains the photographs we have of (presumably) him in Egypt in Dec 1915 - I'm not a military historian but I gather the British were withdrawing from the Suvla area then.  His presence in the area would have been fairly brief.

Good wishes,

Jenny

[JennyW]

On 09/10/2020 at 00:55, A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy said:

This site never ceases to amaze me - someone posts with an enquiry about a man surrendering his role on a hospital ship, and, lo and behold, the granddaughter of the man in question is able to join the conversation and give his full career history. I assume, Jenny W., that you happened to google either the name of your grandfather or his book, and stumbled across this thread? 

My grandfather (mentioned in my signature below) was a patient on the Essequibo, but sadly I am not able to picture him being under the care of your grandfather, as it was not until August 1918, when he was returning to Britain with a broken ankle. He included a postcard with a photograph of the Essequibo in his diary. Though publication of the photograph is not endorsed as having been officially sanctioned by the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty as yours is, I have always assumed that the postcard was made available for purchase to those who travelled on the ship. The postcard has not been sent through the post, but on the reverse it is endorsed in manuscript "August 1917, G. Taylor, wounded St Julien 31st July 1917." That is a little confusing, as my grandfather mentions that there was a Taylor in the next cot to him, a man with one arm and one leg who was "very cheery and full of beans at the thought of at last getting to Blighty after many months at N^o 2 B.R.C." but was this the Taylor mentioned on the back of the postcard, given the 1917 date, or did my grandfather acquire it from another Taylor later? Anyway, whichever it was, it seems that the voyage of the Mr Taylor mentioned on the reverse of the postcard was also too late for him to have been under the care of your grandfather.

Thank you for this post - how fascinating that your grandfather left a diary of his WWI experiences.  My recent venture into family history was prompted by a mix of recent retirement, the inheriting of family paperwork from my mother and covid lockdowns; it has shown me that discoveries tend to lead to further questions!  I came across this thread because I googled on "Essequibo" knowing that my grandfather had served briefly on the ship and had acquired a postcard.  I am sorry that your grandfather never received my grandfather's care but am very pleased to hear that he survived nonetheless - someone else obviously knew what they were doing!

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

On 06/11/2020 at 18:25, JennyW said:

My recent venture into family history was prompted by a mix of recent retirement, the inheriting of family paperwork from my mother and covid lockdowns; it has shown me that discoveries tend to lead to further questions! 

 

My experience is very similar - the discovery of the existence of my grandad's diary about 10 years ago, time to do something with it and do a little research around it over the last three years as I reduced my working hours and moved towards retirement, and then I feel very lucky to have had the project of publication (scheduled for 11/11/20) to immerse myself in during lockdown. As you say, however, there are always more questions arising, the more you look into things. I do hope that you manage to clear up the suggestion that your grandfather was court martialled - it seems most unlikely given the rest of his career!

Tricia

Edited 15 January , 2021 by A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy

[JennyW]

On 07/11/2020 at 14:23, A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy said:

 

My experience is very similar - the discovery of the existence of my grandad's diary about 10 years ago, time to do something with it and do a little research around it over the last three years as I reduced my working hours and moved towards retirement, and then I feel very lucky to have had the project of publication (scheduled for 1/11/20) to immerse myself in during lockdown. As you say, however, there are alsways more questions arising, the more you look into things. I do hope that you manage to clear up the suggestion that your grandfather was court martialled - it seems most unlikely given the rest of his career!

Tricia

Your grandfather’s diary looks fascinating, from what you’re put on the web – most readable and entertaining with his sense of humour showing through.  Many of the parts you refer to but don’t quote on the website must make for gruelling reading though.  He was certainly thrown in as a signals officer and I was amused to see how he managed to squeeze into the Army at the medical.  The medical was my grandfather’s first failed hurdle when he, as a young man in the late 1880s applied for the Navy – his short-sight let him down.  As his older brothers had done, he had expected to join the Forces but he then also failed entrance to the Indian Medical service and the Army.  He later credited “the fortune of war” as giving him the chance of a commission in the R.A.M.C. and so his story continued.

I do send congratulations on the publication of your grandfather’s diary – the website shows it in extremely good light.  It all must have been a lot of work but what a wonderful tribute to Norman Hall!

[JennyW]

On 15/05/2020 at 04:25, John Gilinsky said:

Does anyone know the history as to why Dr  Gimlette commanding the hospital ship Essequibo was removed from command whilst this ship was in Singapore?  

 

National Archives U K reference:   FCO 141/16036    1917

Thanks

I now understand why Dr J.D. Gimlette (R.A.M.C.) was removed from his post of Officer in Charge of troops on the H.M.H.S. Essequibo.  He was not court martialed but was suddenly superseded, and, if you can bear with me for a long story, I’ll tell it here.  The letters I’ve referred to here are all within The National Archives papers: FCO 141/16036.

 

After working in the PoW camp at Dorchester, JDG commenced service on H.M.H.S. Essequibo in November 1915 (1), becoming temporary Captain on 2^nd April 1916 (Supplt. to London Gazette 27/04/1916) – so served on the Essequibo and in the Mediterranean for much longer than I had previously thought.  He became Officer in Charge of troops on the ship in September 1916(1) and was appointed temporary Major on 1st November while in this role (Supplt. to London Gazette 16/11/1916).

 

Lt. Col. F.K. Essell (Assistant Embarkation Commandant, Liverpool) explained in a letter (2) to the D.D.M.S. Southampton that when the Essequibo was in Liverpool from about 8^th February 1917, JDG had sought his advice regarding the payment of the personnel on the ship - there being no embarkation paymaster in Liverpool - and that Essell had advised JDG to report to Western Command, Chester.  Essell said in this letter “If this was not the correct procedure I should like to say that the fault was not his, but mine, and that he was in no way to blame”.

 

The Essequibo left Liverpool for Canada on 20^th February – and returned - with JDG being unaware that this had indeed not been the correct procedure (1); apparently he should have dealt directly with the D.D.M.S. (then Surgeon General Sir William Donovan K.C.B.) “for everything” (3).  A War Office letter dated 09/3/17 telling him that he was superseded and orders from the D.D.M.S. Southampton dated 16/3/1917 apparently did not reach JDG until 19^th March 1917, three days after the Essequibo had returned to Liverpool (1).  In ignorance of his changed status, JDG wrote a report about the voyage, sending it as soon as the ship arrived in Liverpool on 16^th March to the Director General A.M.S. at Western Command (seemingly part of the War Office), with copies to the Embarkation Commandant at Liverpool and the D.D.M.S. Southampton (1), probably thus compounding his “error”!  This had been the first voyage of a hospital ship to Canada and one not entirely without challenges; there had been disorder on the ship because of delays in Canada, and an encounter with a German submarine on the home run (1). 

 

The correspondence makes very clear that JDG was somewhat upset at his removal from the Essequibo, even though letters from both the War Office (4) and the D.D.M.S. (5) state that JDG’s transfer from the Essequibo “in no way implied censure”.  Cubitt (3) of the War Office said that JDG’s transfer to duty ashore was because of “certain defects in Military administration ... it was believed that he could be more usefully employed elsewhere.” and “His professional ability is fully recognised as being of a high order”.

 

By 11^th April 1917 it seems that JDG had become Medical Officer in Charge of the Isolation Hospital, Brimstone Bottom; his letter (1) to the Officer in Charge of the Military Hospital, Tidworth was to explain his removal from the Essequibo and to ask his “boss” to support his request to Army HQ for his reinstatement to the ship, or, failing that, for him to be allowed to serve in “an appointment dealing with diseases of the Tropics”.  JDG also asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonial Office, Mr Secretary Long (presumably the Right Hon. W.H. Long M.P.) to intervene on his behalf (6) - to no avail.

 

Less than a fortnight later, Sir William Donovan (D.D.M.S., Southampton) wrote to JDG, congratulating him on his “appointment at Oxford” (7) and the following month JDG wrote from the 3^rd Southern General Hospital, Oxford to the Colonial Office to enclose that letter from the D.D.M.S. and to close the correspondence (8).

 

I know from family records that JDG remained in the R.A.M.C. until the end of the war, serving in the Protozoological Department at Nakuru Military Hospital, British East Africa, 1918-19, so his request to deal with diseases of the Tropics was honoured.

 

I’m really grateful to John Gilinsky for raising the question of why my grandfather was removed from the command of the Essequibo, to everyone who has commented on this thread and for the fact that I happened to tumble across it.  You have all made me consider my grandfather’s WWI experiences and have greatly enhanced our family understanding of his challenges and achievements.  Many thanks indeed!

 

Jenny

 

from The National Archives papers: FCO 141/16036

1  JDG 11/04/17 to Officer in Charge, Military Hospital, Tidworth

2  Essell F.K. 26/03/1917 to the D.D.M.S. Southampton

3  JDG letter 24/3/1917 to Essell

4  Cubitt B.B. [WarOffice] 7/4/1917 to The Under Secretary of State, Colonial Office

5  Donovan W. 23/4/1917 to JDG

6  JDG 15/04/1917 to Under Secretary of State, Colonial Office, London

7  Donovan W. 23/04/1916(sic) to JDG

8  JDG 16/05/1917 to the Under Secretary of State, Colonial Office, London

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

On 15/01/2021 at 11:10, JennyW said:

Your grandfather’s diary looks fascinating, from what you’re put on the web – most readable and entertaining with his sense of humour showing through.  Many of the parts you refer to but don’t quote on the website must make for gruelling reading though.  He was certainly thrown in as a signals officer and I was amused to see how he managed to squeeze into the Army at the medical.  The medical was my grandfather’s first failed hurdle when he, as a young man in the late 1880s applied for the Navy – his short-sight let him down.  As his older brothers had done, he had expected to join the Forces but he then also failed entrance to the Indian Medical service and the Army.  He later credited “the fortune of war” as giving him the chance of a commission in the R.A.M.C. and so his story continued.

I do send congratulations on the publication of your grandfather’s diary – the website shows it in extremely good light.  It all must have been a lot of work but what a wonderful tribute to Norman Hall!

 

Thank you, Jenny, you are right that publication of the book has been hard work, but so very interesting - and, yes, sometimes upsetting; I am sure that one of my grandfather's reasons for writing the diary was to try to make sense of it all, and to make sure that he, at least, did not forget the comrades he had lost, as well as to record the momentous events that had shaped his young life. As you will have gathered, he was 22; while I was reading the diary for the first time, my own son attained that age while a University student studying medicine, but I simply couldn't imagine him assuming the responsibilities that my grandfather had to assume at such an early age. Of course, since then I have seen my son grow into the responsibilities that he has chosen to assume for himself, but thankfully nothing like those that my grandfather found himself thrown into; the men - boys - of the Great War had to grow up so very, very quickly - if they survived to do so.

Reading your account of how the war enabled your grandfather to get into the service which had initially rejected him, and comparing it with my grandfather finding that the rules could, in war, be bent a little to allow someone of his physique to enlist, and also reading the many accounts of how many young men falsified their ages in order to achieve early enlistment underlines how keen so many young men were to enlist, and makes it the more poignant that so many of them didn't survive. We are fortunate indeed that both our grandfathers did.

23 hours ago, JennyW said:

I now understand why Dr J.D. Gimlette (R.A.M.C.) was removed from his post of Officer in Charge of troops on the H.M.H.S. Essequibo.  He was not court martialed but was suddenly superseded, and, if you can bear with me for a long story, I’ll tell it here.  The letters I’ve referred to here are all within The National Archives papers: FCO 141/16036.

 

I am so glad that you have been able to research your grandfather's service history so thoroughly, and that the question raised by John Gilinsky in the OP has not just been left hanging unanswered on this thread. What a very fascinating story - thank you for sharing it with us.

Tricia

Edited 16 January , 2021 by A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy
error in age at enlistment corrected

[Winson Saw]

On 02/10/2020 at 16:18, JennyW said:

John Desmond Gimlette (Jack) was in the Colonial Medical Service as Residency Surgeon of Pahang in the Federated Malay States (1897-1900) and then in Kelantan 1909-1921; he was given leave of absence from the CMS during WWI when he signed up with the RAMC, serving 2.4.15-2.8.19.  His first war-time posting was to the PoW camp at Dorchester (when he met his wife-to-be); he was then MO on the Essequibo and afterwards joined the German East African Expeditionary Force as protozoologist, based some of the time, I think, at Nakuru Military Hospital.  He returned to Kelantan after the war until ill health brought him back to England in 1921, to marriage and becoming a father in his late 60s.

He was my grandfather, and the two medical Gimlettes in the RN spotted by seajane were one of his older brothers and his nephew - is there anything else you'd like to know about him?

 

Jack is third from the right in the front row.

Hello Jenny,

 I'm from Penang,Malaysia.I'm a local historian here.I do have a list of your grandfather,Dr.J.D.Gimlette appointments in Malaya.Are you interested?.Do you mind help me to search for group photos of your grandfather which were taken in Kelantan?.As I'm looking for any picture of Henry Norman,magistrate and assistant adviser in 1910'S Kelantan.He was a great friend to Dr.Gimlette in Kelantan.

My email - email removed for security reasons - please communicate via the private message system

Best wishes,
Winson Saw