21st Battalion Tyneside Scottish Piper article

[Hyacinth1326]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8311677/Bagpipes-carried-Scottish-piper-Battle-Somme-come-light-100-years-on.html?fbclid=IwAR0IcHDNutOdeGNZ4mTB2d-2Ue3SgLG6Yjb3AcQgpbOmUUrB2NZ_Xcw7dss

 

 

Pity the pipes will doubtless leave the region. Wonder if he managed to get beyond Lochnagar ?

Edited 13 May , 2020 by Hyacinth1326

[Steven Broomfield]

Interestingly, I have been reading on FB, in a group dedicated to military fakes, that it might be hokum: the yellow bits on the pipes are a plastic which was not invented until 1927, and not used generally on military pipes until the 1950's, according to someone who seems to know about it.

 

Note also that the auction house is hedging everything with 'said to be' and 'thought to be'. Finally, if the poor ******'s body was never found, how did someone take the pipes from him and get them back to Tyneside?

Sounds fishy to me, and some poor sap has patted company with 4,600 notes on the strength of it.

[Steven Broomfield]

Oh, and a friend who served with the current (Royal Artillery) iteration of the Tyneside Scottish and is also an amateur military historian tells me the pipes gifted to the battalion had silver fittings and the regimental badge and battalion number on. And weren't Government tartan.

 

I suspect the auction house hasn't done its homework and the vendor has maybe taken family hearsay and believed it (I might be charitable there)

[Ron Abbott]

Don't be so quick off the mark.........the cover on the instrument is not Government tartan but looks like it could be one of the setts of Campbell....which would be correct depending on which battalion of the Tyneside Scottish he served in. 

 

Secondly if you look at the photos of the books and pic, you'll see some tatty tartan ribbons.  These also look like bagpipe ribbons and are in Campbell tartan.   The ones on the bagpipes look like shiny replacements so don't go basing anything on them!

 

Secondly, where does it say that the mounts are plastic? 

I agree that they do look like they could be plastic mounts from a later era......but I have also seen mounts made of ivory which has discoloured over the years to that same sort of colour. 

 

Doesn't appear to be cassein nor celluloid both of which were used back then.

 

I'd like to see the instrument up closer before saying that they weren't played at the Somme.....and to identify the make.

If the slides are original and sterling, they may also bear hallmarks with date and manufacturer's mark.   

 

  

Edited 14 May , 2020 by Ron Abbott

[ianjonesncl]

Tyneside Scottish Pipes from the Regimental Museum 101 Regiment Royal Artillery.   These were presented many years ago by the son of a TS Officer.

 

Edited 13 May , 2020 by ianjonesncl

[ianjonesncl]

22 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

Don't be so quick off the mark.........the cover on the instrument is not Government tartan but looks like it could be one of the setts of Campbell....which would be correct depending on which battalion of the Tyneside Scottish he served in. 

  

 

I believe the pipers of 21 NF (2TS) which is mentioned in the newspaper article wore Campbell tartan. 

[Rum Ration]

[Ron Abbott]

I think they may well be genuine.  And possibly made by RG Lawrie of Glasgow.

 

The mounts as can be seen when enhanced/enlarged in these better photos look like typical, discoloured genuine ivory.  Especially if you look at the mount that is showing signs of damage.  They are not that awful plastic used in later years which turns a hideous orange colour. 

Presumably the slides (if genuine sterling/britannia silver) have no hallmarks otherwise the auctioneer would surely have mentioned it to help confirm the provenance.

 

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/lockdales/catalogue-id-lo10134/lot-786e9274-6d72-45fc-b9cf-ab9e00f7079b

Edited 14 May , 2020 by Ron Abbott

[Steven Broomfield]

I'm happy to go with the experts, but I suspect that without a physical examination by experts, we might never know for sure.

[Ron Abbott]

So there we go....the instrument apparently sold for 4,600 GBP.

 

The bidders obviously thought it the real McCoy (from the Tyneside Scoittish) because without the history the bagpipes would be worth a lot less! 

Maybe 500 or 600 GBP (and that's me being kind as they need some work done on them).   

 

Described as made by Lawries or Hendersons with 'German silver' slides (which explains why there is no hallmark) and imitation ivory although it doesn't say what material was used. Not cassein,  Maybe it's celluloid which actually resembles ivory quite closely and was used around that period. And.....RG Lawrie, bagpipe maker of Glasgow is known to have used it.  Whatever the material is, it's a damn sight better than the horrendous plastic used a decade or two later! 

 

Furthermore the design of the drones make me think they are more likely Lawrie than Henderson.  They are of the right period, but whether played on the battlefield....who knows.  

 

View article -

 

https://pipingpress.com/2020/05/15/somme-bagpipe-sells-for-deservedly-high-sum/

Edited 20 May , 2020 by Ron Abbott