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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

RNR CAP BADGE


Naval Gazing

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No idea, never seen this before, but would be interested in knowing!

 

Thanks for posting,

Bryan

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What is the context of this cap badge image? How do you know it is RNR and not RN or RNVR?

It looks to me like a 'mock-up' for a non-RN use - Corporation Transport?

Edited by horatio2
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Maybe a shipping line, merchant marine, looks like 2 crossed swords at the bottom.

Tony

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Thank you very much Tony, that makes a lot of sense.

I am very new to this kind of research and appear to have ruffled a few feathers already!

 

Regards,

Marianne

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18 minutes ago, Naval Gazing said:

Thank you very much Tony, that makes a lot of sense.

I am very new to this kind of research and appear to have ruffled a few feathers already!

 

Regards,

Marianne

Hi Marianne

Is this a closeup of a larger photograph?
If so, it may be worth posting the full photograph, as the full uniform may give further clues.

Welcome to the forum!

Sepoy

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Marianne

It is very much a standard Merchant Shipping Company officer's cap badge, with the Company House flag amongst the laurel leaves, stems not crossed swords, except for the King's Crown.  Generally speaking this crown was only awarded to the more prestigious shipping companies who had gained Royal patronage, or Companies who had contracts for carrying the Royal Mails.  I do not recognise this house flag with C.T on it and cannot find it in any of the usual reference books.  In your other post you say your Grandfather was a Marine Engineer in the Merchant Service, do you not have any other records to tell you for which Company he worked?  

 

Yes, as Sepoy says, a full picture might help and any ships names on which he might have sailed, also his name and date of birth.

 

Tony

Edited by MerchantOldSalt
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Thank you for your replies. I have probably confused matters by referring to the Merchant Service.

I think the correct term for the period is Mercantile Marine.

The photograph is just a small head shot and the only surviving picture we have.

My maternal Grandfather died in 1920 age 36.

I have managed to find his RNR service record and medals record.

The cap badge is a puzzle but not really of any great significance.

Marianne

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Good that you now have his service records.

Did he serve on Admiralty transports?
Might give us a clue if we know what ships was he he on?

(The cap badge isn’t RNR)

Michael

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Thanks again everyone, think I was suffering from brain freeze when I posted the cap badge under RNR. For the moment I think the badge must remain a mystery as it is time for me to move on.

The RN Records I found revealed Grandfather was a member of the crew of SS Condor, when on October 11th 1914, it was captured by the German light Cruiser SMS Karlsruhe, under the command of the remarkable Fregattenkapitän, Erich Köhler.

Master and crew of SS Condor and further crew from several ships, around 500 in total, were eventually released at Tenerife.  The German prize code at this time stated master, officers, and crew were not to be made prisoners of war, provided they entered into a formal written undertaking, not to undertake service with the enemy state operations of war, for the duration of the war.

On return to UK Grandfather signed up as RNR on November 25th 1914, I have no idea if he should have made any kind of disclosure at this point.  

Grandfather joined HMS Virginian armed merchant cruiser on the northern patrol as Engine Room Artificer on December 8th 1914 and was gazetted for DSM on August 7th 1915.       He then transferred to HMS Castor on November 12th 1915.  

On January 9th 1916 RN records show he was discharged by order of the admiralty on account of the undertaking.

Despite strenuously appealing the decision, an admiralty communication dated January 25th states his case has been fully considered and the decision must be adhered to.

Grandfather would never have known about the New York ‘Etappendienst’ cell, or the several months the Royal Navy spent searching for the already sunk Karlsruhe.

As far as I am aware, for the remainder of the war Grandfather served with the merchant convoys and was torpedoed at least once.  Both his physical and mental health were destroyed and he died in 1920.

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The CONDOR was a British-flagged vessel owned by the New York & Pacific Steamship Co. Ltd. and registered at London, although Grace Bros. of New York were involved as managers.

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Looking at the photograph I see that there is a full stop after the C but not the T.  Could the C be a damaged G?  That would explain no full stop after the T or not.

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