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Remembered Today:

Help with grandfather please, GC Day RWK


Tonyd

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A slight clarification he did not re-enlist in the RWK  but in the Machine Gun Corps

so L/10138 as Chris's post 13

 

16869 MGC December 1915; almost certainly in the field on the formation of the MGC and posted to 13 MG Coy in the same Brigade as 1st RWK on 24 December 1915.

 

7807867 is in the series issued to the MGC A.O.338/August 1920 https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/new-british-army-numbers-issued-in-1920/

 

So he re-enlisted in the MGC, probably January 1919.  The MGC was disbanded in 1922 but had he continued in service with the RWK he would have retained the same number, again rough guess August 1921 on.

 

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Keep us posted on what you find out, please.

good luck

Charlie

 

i will keep you informed charlie thank you for your help its is much appreciated by the family i been reading the queens own gazette you told me about its very good for information about everyday life during the war.

 i have found out some info about him getting demoted from sarg back to private one day while not in front line he was taking wagons of ammo upto the front line  on arrival he unhitched the wagon and tied the horse to a tree a few hundred yards away unfortunate for him the horse was killed by a shell landing nearby subsequently he was demoted this info comes from a family member so not 100% how true it is but my arnt said it was one of only a few stories he told her 

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thanks for info wrightdw i do have some info am i allowed to post what i have printed out from wikipedia thanks

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thanks for your post kenf48 would you know why he would have left the west kents to join mgc i am confessed i have researched the west kents from 1914 till 1918 thinking he was in the west kents for the duration of the war now you have said he joined mgc in 1915 so from december 1915 till end of war he would not have been in the west kents so i will have to  research 13th mg coy from this date ? thanks

 

tony

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1 hour ago, Tonyd said:

thanks for your post kenf48 would you know why he would have left the west kents to join mgc

 

The MGC was created on the 14th October 1915, followed by an Army Order dated 22nd October.  There is a brief account of its formation on the LLT

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/machine-gun-corps-in-the-first-world-war/

 

The initial recruits in the field came from the machine gun sections of the battalions in each brigade.  They were formed into Companies and took the title of the Brigade, the 1st QORWK were in 13th Brigade, therefore the machine gunners were posted into the Corps and to the respective Company.  (A classic account of this process is in George Coppard's memoir 'With a Machine Gun to Cambrai'.)

 

The war diary of 13th Company is here at TNA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352260

It is here on Ancestry

 

The diary begins with the formation of the Company on the 24th December 1915.  On the 28th December it shows "2/Lt G. P. Burdett and 2/Lt A.E. Carpenter of 1st R W Kent and 33 other ranks were taken on strength".  Reference to the Medal Rolls shows when the Rolls were compiled twenty seven of these men were still associated with the Corps.  The numbers run from 16858 to 16890 inclusive, i.e. 32 men, 16884 Nosworthy is one of those missing (he's on the Labour Corps Roll) but his record survives and confirms the block is from the 1st Bn RW Kent. You may look for others in this cohort.

Incidentally the KOSB numbers run sequentially from 16891 and the diary shows 27 other ranks from the 2nd Battalion of that regiment joining the Company.

 

 Whilst we can be certain he served with the 13th Coy from its formation there is no guarantee he remained with them until the Armistice, for example if wounded he would be taken off strength and on recovery may have been posted to anothe MG Company.  In 1918 the MGC underwent another reorganisation and on 26 April 1918 the Brigade Companies were formed into Battalions, thus 13th Company became part of the 5th Battalion MGC.

 

Ken

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15 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 Whilst we can be certain he served with the 13th Coy from its formation there is no guarantee he remained with them until the Armistice

The Hospital Admissions entry that I noted in Post10 above showed that by April 1917 he was 11th Company MGC. Was there an obvious migratory route ?

 

On 05/06/2020 at 10:19, kenf48 said:

7807867 is in the series issued to the MGC

Well clarified, Ken. That explains why all the entries in the Queens Own Gazette had 6million rather than 7 million series numbers !

 

Charlie

 

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17 hours ago, Tonyd said:

 i have found out some info about him getting demoted from sarg back to private one day while not in front line he was taking wagons of ammo upto the front line  on arrival he unhitched the wagon and tied the horse to a tree a few hundred yards away unfortunate for him the horse was killed by a shell landing nearby subsequently he was demoted this info comes from a family member so not 100% how true it is but my arnt said it was one of only a few stories he told her 

These handed down stories can often get corrupted with time and the telling but should have a thread of truth running through them and should be noted down carefully.

 

Charlie

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evening all yes charlie am not 100% sure my aunt has found out that my gran passed all his army stuff he kept in a old brief case was given to my grandads brother so she has asked his daughter to have a look see if it is still around fingers crossed had a look at mod glasgow it says i will need a death certificate aunt says she does not no of one so not sure if i will be able to obtain one 

WO-372-5-223451.pdf

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7 hours ago, charlie962 said:

The Hospital Admissions entry that I noted in Post10 above showed that by April 1917 he was 11th Company MGC. Was there an obvious migratory route ?

 

I knew I’d seen it somewhere!  No obvious route, as ever if sick or wounded taken off strength and posted from the MG Depot at Camiers where he was needed.   Let’s hope the briefcase has further revelations.  

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thanks ken i hope so to i researched grandad about 8 yrs ago always thinking he was in west kents for duration of war now got to start again from 24 december 1915 when i was told he transfered to 13 mgc so got 3 yrs to research 

 

tony 

 

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i belive it was you ken that told me about grandad joining mgc thanks for that or i would never had realized 

 

tony

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tonyd said:

i belive it was you ken that told me about grandad joining mgc thanks for that or i would never had realized 

 

tony

 

 

 

It was but note Charlie’s post he was serving with 11 Company when on the casualty list.

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thank you ken i have downloaded some info on grandad from national archives can i post on here so you, charlie or anyone else who has helped me can see it because not really got a clue what i am looking at thanks 

 

tony 

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19 minutes ago, Tonyd said:

thank you ken i have downloaded some info on grandad from national archives can i post on here so you, charlie or anyone else who has helped me can see it because not really got a clue what i am looking at thanks 

 

tony 

As long as you acknowledge the source should be ok

 

Ken

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What you have downloaded is his medal index card (free on Ancestry if you register) 

 

The Cards were microfilmed six to a page so when you downloaded your grandfather’s card you get five other, unrelated cards. The cards are an index to the Medal Rolls.  There is information on interpreting the cards on the LLT

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/

 

The information on the card has been discussed previously.  The reference mark against the RWK indicates that is the regiment he first served with in a theatre of war and to which the medal is named.  The card also gives the IV or issue voucher for the Clasp and Roses which identify him as an ‘Old Contemptible’ as noted at the outset.

 

Ken

 

 

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