Regimental Aid Post, New Zealand Rifle Brigade, 5 April 1918

[rolt968]

Does anyone happen to know where the regimental aid post(s) of the New Zealand Rifle Brigade were on 5 April 1918? (War Diaries not digitised.)

A soldier in 2 Canterbury Regiment whom I am researching was last heard of there.

This is the part of the manuscript report of the court of enquiry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RM

[TEW]

Was he not left at the RAP 5/7/18?

 

There are NZ field ambulance diaries at TNA but not digitised as yet.

 

I assume the NZRB mentioned is the 3rd NZRB? Which seems to comprise 1, 2, 3 & 4 NZRBs? (Long Long trail).

 

I find their brigade arrangement somewhat complicated but the 3rd NZFA may have been with 3rd NZRB

 

If AWM, TNA and Archway have nothing I'm not sure where else would.

TEW

 

[rolt968]

20 minutes ago, TEW said:

Was he not left at the RAP 5/7/18?

 

There are NZ field ambulance diaries at TNA but not digitised as yet.

 

I assume the NZRB mentioned is the 3rd NZRB? Which seems to comprise 1, 2, 3 & 4 NZRBs? (Long Long trail).

 

I find their brigade arrangement somewhat complicated but the 3rd NZFA may have been with 3rd NZRB

 

If AWM, TNA and Archway have nothing I'm not sure where else would.

TEW

 

Many thanks

It is actually 5 April 1918, written badly. There are one or two versions in the NZ soldier's record. (Unfortunately I chose the first one!)

I had wondered myself whether NZRB refers to the brigade which was made up NZRB battalions or one of the battalions.

RM

[TEW]

Yes, it seems the 3rd NZR Brigade comprises 4 sub NZR brigades which includes the 3rd NZR brigade!

TEW

[rolt968]

I can't resist being a wee bit pedantic. I suppose it was actually 3 (New Zealand Rifle Brigade) Brigade - made up of four battalions of the New Zealand Rifle Brigade?  I think it was actually called 3 New Zealand (Rifles) Brigade.

 

In theory shouldn't there have been four RAPs; one per battalion?

(Not that I'm getting any nearer to the original answer.)

 

RM

 

RM

[TEW]

Surely it was confusing for the individuals of 3rd New Zealand Rifle Brigade?

 

That was their brigade but also the equivalent of their battalion which went by the same name!

 

Second point. Depends if this is an offensive action or were they overrun or just an event during normal holding if the line?

 

For an offensive action probably 2 brigades would be involved, another in support and another out of the line.

 

During normal routine their frontage may have only been 1 or 2 brigades but normally each brigade would have more than 1 RAP.

 

2 Canterbury is of course 2nd NZ Brigade, why did they not have their own RAP to take him to? Seems a bit harsh to take him to another brigade's RAP and just leave him there.

TEW

 

[rolt968]

23 minutes ago, TEW said:

Surely it was confusing for the individuals of 3rd New Zealand Rifle Brigade?

 

That was their brigade but also the equivalent of their battalion which went by the same name!

 

Second point. Depends if this is an offensive action or were they overrun or just an event during normal holding if the line?

 

For an offensive action probably 2 brigades would be involved, another in support and another out of the line.

 

During normal routine their frontage may have only been 1 or 2 brigades but normally each brigade would have more than 1 RAP.

 

2 Canterbury is of course 2nd NZ Brigade, why did they not have their own RAP to take him to? Seems a bit harsh to take him to another brigade's RAP and just leave him there.

 

They were holding the line against a German attack including a heavy bombardment. By the looks of it there were 2 battalion per brigade (still four battalions) in the line.

This is the History of the Canterbury Regiment:

http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-WH1-Cant-t1-body-d13.html

See pages 234 and 235.

 

I can't find any reason not taking him to their own RAP.

 

My man was serving in 2 Canterbury Regiment - according to the history says that no attacks were made against 2 Canterbury Regiment, but presumably they did suffer in the bombardment.

RM

Edited 9 May , 2020 by rolt968

[rolt968]

The History of the NZ Rifle Brigade is very interesting.

 

The HQs of the two front line NZRB battalions were in cellars in Colincamps. They narrowly escaped destruction from 12in shells. I wonder if my man was wounded and taken to the NZRB RAB during the bombardment. It was a very heavy and deep bombardment. He might not even have been in the frontline. There are about twenty casualties in 2 Canturbury Regiment on 5 April 1918 (discount one buried in Etaples).

[TEW]

That makes some sense, I guess if a battalion was not in the line and therefore had no RAP set up then any injury due to rear shelling would have to be taken somewhere. Only proviso there is that a rear battalion would then be taking an injured man forward to an RAP rather than backwards to an ADS or similar.

He may of course have had some reason to be in a forward position.

I can check the DMS Army diary tomorrow but not hopeful of seeing RAP positions of one one its divisions of 2 ANZAC Corps.

TEW

[rolt968]

11 hours ago, TEW said:

That makes some sense, I guess if a battalion was not in the line and therefore had no RAP set up then any injury due to rear shelling would have to be taken somewhere. Only proviso there is that a rear battalion would then be taking an injured man forward to an RAP rather than backwards to an ADS or similar.

He may of course have had some reason to be in a forward position.

I can check the DMS Army diary tomorrow but not hopeful of seeing RAP positions of one one its divisions of 2 ANZAC Corps.

TEW

Apoplogies,

I think I have been a bit vague.

 

As I understand it the battalions in the front line were 1 and 2 Canterbury Regiment and two battalions of the NZRB. Unfortunately I have not yet been able to work out the order of the battalions. The barrage according to one of the histories was probably the heaviest the New Zealanders ever experienced. It extended deep behind the front line. Possibly the Germans were attempting to isolate the front line again.  When the German infantry did attack they did not attack 2 Canterbury Regiment (much?) but did attack the other three battalions and captured one of the front line positions of one of the NZRB battalions.

 

I am wondering if my man was wounded by the barrage rather than one of the infantry attacks (meaning that he didn't have to have been in the front line) and that the NZRB RAP was the nearer. (The court of enquiry took place about six monyhs after the events.

 

RM

[TEW]

Perhaps it was me being vague.

 

The RAP would be in the front line, normally there for front line injuries. So for me that suggests he must have been in the front line (ish).

 

If he was wounded by the deep barrage way behind the lines it would have been easier, quicker & safer to take him to a dressing station behind the lines rather than stretcher him forward to the front line where medical assistance was a bit rudimentary and pretty hazardous by the sound of it.

TEW

[rolt968]

1 hour ago, TEW said:

Perhaps it was me being vague.

 

The RAP would be in the front line, normally there for front line injuries. So for me that suggests he must have been in the front line (ish).

 

If he was wounded by the deep barrage way behind the lines it would have been easier, quicker & safer to take him to a dressing station behind the lines rather than stretcher him forward to the front line where medical assistance was a bit rudimentary and pretty hazardous by the sound of it.

TEW

Many thanks

That makes things a lot clearer. I was not sure where the RAP would be relative to the front line.

 

The war memorial says that he died at Mailly-Maillet. I assume that comes from something sent to the family and indicates a general area.

 

RM