HMS Vindictive 1918

[Labeline]

My cousin has recently found a huge photo album that belonged to her grandfather, Leading Stoker Herbert Thomas Scott. K9430. Amongst the photos are are large number take during his service in HMS Vindictive.....the later aircraft carrier.....during the Russian Intervention in 1918/1919 when the ship became stuck in the ice. His younger brother was killed on the old Vindictive during the Zeebrugge Raid. I am informed that this photo a sub Lieutenants uniform.....which he definitely was not and we now know this is a member of the crew and not him. The second is another photo from his album. Sadly, Berts medals appear to have gone missing which seems strange given the huge collection of ephemera he left behind. The attached photo  is typical of the many she has found. Sadly some are badly faded so I may have to invest in some photos restoration software. If anyone should come across his medals please let me know so I can try to obtain them for his grand daughter.

Edited 8 May , 2020 by Labeline
Correcting facts

[seaJane]

I'm not sure those rings are straight, and there seems to be a letter inside the executive curl (loop) on his left sleeve. Might be an RN Reserve uniform? Also, that colour - the jacket seems very pale compared with the trousers. An old and faded one.

 

His service record is downloadable from here, free at the time of writing though you have to sign in:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6919425

 

sJ

[Labeline]

I have his Service Record. We think this photo was a bit of a giggle. He was a Leading Stoker. There are other photos in the album with other.men wearing the same jacket. Vindictive joined the Fleet in 1919. Put the photos out there for interest. 

[Labeline]

Having discussed the photo of the chap in uniform we realised it can’t possibly be Herbert Scott as he was only 29 when he left the Service in 1921 and he doesn’t look like this in later photos. Easy mistake to make when you only knew someone in later life. Having looked at the album there are photos of several individuals so this must just have been another one of the crew.

[wallace2]

One of the Coastal Motor Boats has a Victoria Cross painted on the front of the Deckhouse.  Agar VC's boat?

 

[Labeline]

On 14/05/2020 at 21:30, wallace2 said:

One of the Coastal Motor Boats has a Victoria Cross painted on the front of the Deckhouse.  Agar VC's boat?

 

Is that what they are? I thought they were submarines! Shows what I know about it!!

[RNCVR]

He appears to be a Warrant Officer, RN, but hard to tell if Executive or the former Civil branch. Civil branch (Paymasters, Surgeons, Engineers, Instructors, etc) all wore Executive curl after late 1918, (Engineer officers had made the chaneover in mid 1915) so possible he could be any branch.

 

The 4 small chevrons on his right sleeve are War Service chevrons, very hard to see if he has the 1914 chevron tho.

He also wears a medal ribbon which might be 1914-15 star but too out of focus to determine with any degree of certainty.

 

Dont think a letter within the sleeve lace ring Jane, too early timeframe for that.

 

Best....Bryan

 

[RNCVR]

I think the cross on the bridge of left CM boat signifies as Iron cross(EK), perhaps its a mark of a German ship that boat sank earlier in the war.

 

Thanks,

Bryan

[RNCVR]

3 hours ago, Labeline said:

Is that what they are? I thought they were submarines! Shows what I know about it!!

 

 

Not subs, they have deck funnels! Altho at first glance they look like subs.

 

Winter climate with ice, photo possibly taken in Russia during 1919 Allied Intervention period.

 

Perhaps you might post a few more of the crew photos Labeline.

 

Thanks,

Bryan

[wrightdw]

The boat on the left (photo taken at Biorko, Finland) is CMB No. 4, Lieut. Augustus Agar's boat on the night of 18 June 1919 when he sank the Soviet cruiser Oleg in the Gulf of Finland with a single torpedo.

Agar was awarded the VC, Sub Lieut. John Hampsheir the DSC and CMM Hugh Beeley the CGM. All three awards were gazetted in London Gazette 19 August 1919 with the citation 'in recognition of his conspicuous gallantry, coolness and skill under extremely difficult conditions in action', it was the first VC published without an account of the action for which it was awarded (the CMB's operations in the Gulf of Finland was secret at the time) and was thereafter known as the 'Secret VC'.

 

HMS Vindictive brought with her to the Eastern Baltic a mix of aircraft which were flown ashore and operated for a rudimentary airstrip at Koivisto, Finland flying missions against the Soviet naval base at Kronstadt.

 

If you post more of the photographs I should be able to identify more people and places etc.

 

 

Edited 2 June , 2020 by wrightdw

[gareth morris]

CMB 4 is apparently on display, according to Wikipedia, at boathouse 4 in Portsmouth’s historic dockyard. May take a look when the area reopens. 

Gareth

[wallace2]

Wright DW,

Thank you for your reply.  I have found my copy of Agar's book "Baltic Episode" Hodder 1963 and re-read it.

 

However, I was astonished to see in it the same photograph of the three CMBs rafted on the Vindictive!  Guess how Agar captioned the photo!

"CMBs lying alongside HMS Vindictive in Biorko during cold weather. Note Gordon Steele's boat on left with a VC ON THE WIND SCREEN."

 

So, we were both wrong in linking the boat with Agar.  Interesting read though. Agar gained his by sinking  the Bolshevik heavy cruiser Oleg.  His decision to attack was taken by stretching his instructions to the limit.  In the words of Sir Humphrey "Extremely courageous, Minister".

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Motor Boats will feature in a museum that will be opening in Spring 2021. I presume the entry will be covered by a ticket to Portsmouth Historic Document and the National Museum of the Royal Navy
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2020/february/10/200210-new-coastal-forces-museum-for-gosport

[wrightdw]

11 hours ago, wallace2 said:

Wright DW,

Thank you for your reply.  I have found my copy of Agar's book "Baltic Episode" Hodder 1963 and re-read it.

 

However, I was astonished to see in it the same photograph of the three CMBs rafted on the Vindictive!  Guess how Agar captioned the photo!

"CMBs lying alongside HMS Vindictive in Biorko during cold weather. Note Gordon Steele's boat on left with a VC ON THE WIND SCREEN."

 

So, we were both wrong in linking the boat with Agar.  Interesting read though. Agar gained his by sinking  the Bolshevik heavy cruiser Oleg.  His decision to attack was taken by stretching his instructions to the limit.  In the words of Sir Humphrey "Extremely courageous, Minister".

 

 

Correct, the image is in Agar's book (just pulled out my copy to double check) but the boat is Steele's CMB 88BD. The letter designation after the CMB number indicates engine type and armament, ‘BD’ indicates two Green 12-cylinder engines and two torpedoes. It is not unusual that the photograph you have was published elsewhere, it was common at the time for the photographer (amateur photography was permitted during the campaign in Russia when it had been strictly prohibited on the Western Front) to get multiple prints and distribute them to others. i have come across this a few times where two independent sources have the same photograph.

 

Details from the roll of participants in the 'Kronstadt Raid', 18 August 1919 from my book below:

 

 

 

Edited 9 June , 2020 by wrightdw

[Labeline]

I have been away from the forum for a while. Interesting to read that the same photo of the three gunboats appears in a book. We had assumed that like the others the photo was taken by Bert Scott as the family were all keen photographers. It is possible I suppose that it was a photo taken by many crew members. I will see if my cousin sent me any other photos.