Information on Private T.Speak Australian Imperial Force.

[Top notch]

Can  any members help me find information on Private T. Speak? I have drawn a blank on the Australian Government website!!

The only information I have to go on is the following..........

Private T.Speak, Service number 6421. He served with 3rd. Machine Gun Battalion, Australian Imperial Forces during World War 1.

I would like, if possible, to find out if he served in the Gallipoli Campaign and / or France/ Flanders and what became of him afterwards?

Any information or advice regarding his WW1 service would be much appreciated.

Thank you in anticipation, Eddie.

[Michelle Young]

https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/person/326077

 

Fingers crossed this works click view/transcribe, doesn't look like he was at Gallipoli, and died of wounds and buried at Etaples 

[rksimpson]

Hi

 

Mentioned here - https://aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=283925 - joined in 1916 so no Gallipoli, just France.

Also here - https://www.awm.gov.au/advanced-search?query=speak 6421&people=true

Better view of his service records here - https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=8093031

CWGC - https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/496792/speak,-thomas/

 

regards

 

Robert

 

[Top notch]

Hi Michelle and Robert,

Thank you both so much for your help. I have managed to follow the links you sent me and have learnt so much about this gallant man.

I am amazed how detailed the Australian records are and look forward, with interest, to further researching Private T. Speak.

Many thanks to you both, again. Best wishes, Eddie.

[Blackblue]

Here's the 11th MGC Coy War Diary. Unfortunately limited information and ends in Feb 18: 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1338672

 

And also the 11th Infantry Bde (to which they were assigned) for bigger picture. The Bde in defensive positions in north of Sailly-le-Sec. Do some digging in Mar and Apr 18 and you might be able to find specific 11th MC Coy orders or reports. 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1339140

 

Relevant extracts of the Official History here. He was wounded 30 Mar (part of the Battle of Morlancourt): 

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RCDIG1069651/document/5519143.PDF

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RCDIG1069653/document/5519145.PDF

 

 

Rgds

 

Tim D

Edited 29 April , 2020 by Blackblue

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi Eddie, I can help you retrace his steps as my grandfather was with the signal section attached to the 11th Brigade and trained / walked / bussed the same route and stayed at the same chateau as the MG HQ in Heilly.  My grandfather mentions the actions of the machine gunners protecting them outside Doullens (more on that shortly). I immediately recognised the map Tim posted and while it is from May 1918 there were only subtle changes and these occurred after the death of PTE Speak.  I am using Tim's research that his sub unit was with the 11th Brigade as the basis of this account.

 

We've driven the route a few times and walked over the ground retracing my grandfather's steps from his account and his photographs of Heilly, Sailly-le-Sec, Corbie, the Bray-Corbie road and found the entrance to the brigade HQ.

 

Before I begin, please note that the situation in late March was absolutely chaotic.  Units were dispersed and commanders were unsure where their own troops were, let alone the enemy.  On the day PTE Speak died, the brigade was in an advance to contact towards Sailly-le-Sec.  Their own artillery were in Heilly, the heavy artillery were sending rounds "two ridges short", the brigade commander himself had come under machine gun fire while doing a reconnaissance and to make things worse, Monash had not coordinated the Divisional advance.  From memory the 10th Brigade advanced at lunch time and when they came under fire from a flank, the 11th Brigade informed them that they were not leaving for several hours.  Germans were shelling and gas shelling communication lines and several signallers received Military Medals repairing lines under shellfire wearing gas masks for 24 hours.  The 1st Cavalry Division had already asked for assistance relieving their own machine gunners as they pulled back so this might have been a typical task he was performing.

 

So going back to Doullens.  The brigade detrained and commenced marching.  The signallers were at the front of the Division when a staff office galloped up with rumours that the Uhlans (cavalry) were on their way.  The machine gunners were hastily placed in position at the front on the high ground and guarded the division for several hours.  We found the hill where they setup.

 

 

They rolled into bed when all was safe and as they rolled up blankets, word came down to march again.  They marched 6 miles and piled into over 200 London busses waiting to transport them to the front.  This took all night - we drove from Doullens to Heillly with a few stops in under an hour.  Monash met them at Franvillers and they ended up marching into the "pretty little village of Heilly" which had been evacuated so quickly there was still food on the dinner tables.

The ALTM war diary corroborates the "other souces" for provision of food and champagne from the chateau.  The unit war diary for 3 Div gives all the unit locations on March 28th and these remained stable as the brigade pushed battalions forward to Sailly-le-Sec and drew up defensive positions shown on Tim's map. These were firmly established within a few days and continued roughly in place until May / June.

 

This Order of Battle for 28th March shows the Brigade HQ at Heilly and 7 lines down puts the 11th MG Company just above the Trench Mortars.  As the ALTM and my grandfather confirmed they were in the chateau, that's where I would put the MG Coy HQ for the next few days.  A few weeks later, a gas-proof underground dugout sleeping 100 was built in the quarry (von Richtofen was shot almost directly above it, but that's a later story)

 

I hope he got to sample the champagne in the chateau!

 

Finally, here is an image from my grandfather of the view from the chateau terrace towards the church in Heilly.  The hill used by Australian field artillery runs to the top left.  The chateau is privately owned but we stood just a bit lower in 2012 and little had changed.  If you look at the closest building in the bottom-centre, it looks completely unchanged today.

[Top notch]

Hello Tim D and "White Star Line",

Thank you both for the invaluable information you provided to assist me in my research of Private Thomas Speak.

I have spent most of a very wet English April day poring over the information you both supplied.

Firstly, i must say how impressed I am with Australian records. There is so much information retained and available. Our searches here are much more difficult and usually, far less productive!

I do, however, have a few more questions.

I believe Private Speak was wounded on 30th March, 1918, during the action by 41st Batt., 11th Brigade's attack towards Morlancourt (the 11th. Brigade suffered 150 losses on this day, Private Trevor Speak being one of them)? Possibly somewhere NNE of Sailly Le Ser?

His wound was detailed as a gunshot wound to left leg/femhur. He would have been evacuated via Aid Post, Field Ambulance/ Dressing Station, Casualty Clearing Station, any ideas which one, and then by rail or barge to Base Hospital at Etaples? Why Etaples, it was a Canadian Gen. Hospital and about one and a half hours from Sailly Le Ser?. The Australians had No1 hospital at Rouen, two hours distant. No2 hospital at Wimeruex two hours distant and No 3 hospital at Abbeville one hour distant? Any ideas?

My other request is for any information on where and how he arrived in Australia as an immigrant? I understand he was 20 when he landed in Australia, where might i find more information?

I note you are both in Canberra? My son and i visited the brilliant museum you have in Canberra, a few years ago, we were both very impressed.

Thank you both for the information to date, anything else will be greatly appreciated.

Eddie.

[Blackblue]

Here's the 41st Bn War Diary Eddie:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1338975

 

I can see a Mr T Speak in 1912 on Ancestry. Only one I can see from UK to Australia that matches. Listed as a Labourer. 

Name:	Mr T Speak
Gender:	Male
Age:	20
Birth Date:	abt 1892
Departure Date:	15 Oct 1912
Port of Departure:	London, England
Destination Port:	Melbourne, Australia
Ship Name:	Paparoa
Search Ship Database:	Search for the Paparoa in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line:	The New Zealand Shipping Company, Limited
Official Number:	111346

 

And there  are 3 in the Electoral Rolls 1912-1914, all in Victoria. The one that seems to match by occupation is this man in Echuca, Victoria who is listed as a Labourer. I do note that Thomas was in Auburn, Sydney (New South Wales) at the time he enlisted in 1916. 

 

Name:	Thomas Speak
Gender:	Male
Electoral Date:	1914
Electoral Place:	Rochester, Echuca, Victoria, Australia

 

Yes, we are very lucky in Canberra. The Research Centre at AWM is like a second home!

 

Tim 

 

 

 

Edited 29 April , 2020 by Blackblue

[WhiteStarLine]

3 hours ago, Top notch said:

Private Speak was wounded on 30th March, 1918, during the action by 41st Batt., 11th Brigade's attack

Hi Eddie and greetings from a very wet April Canberra day. Three months ago we had the car packed ready for an emergency bushfire evacuation and now COVID.  What's next ...

 

First question, why 41st Battalion?  The 30th was the day the Germans attacked the entire 11th Brigade.  All battalions were engaged as were the MG Coy.  It was a 2 battalion forward and 2 in depth defence (similar to Tim's May map).  So let's start with what we know.  They debussed from the buses my grandfather wrote about and marched into Heilly and straight into their positions.

All quotations from the Appendix to the unit war diary:  Next day the 41st and 44th Battalions moved through 42 and 43 and advanced the line.  "This operation was very successful, and the 42nd and 43rd Battalions again came up and took over the forward positions leaving the 41st and 44th Battalions in supporting positions.  This position was further improved on 29/3/18 and dug.  During these days ..."

 

 

On the 30th, the 11th Machine Gun Coy parade state was 14 officers, 15 NCOs and 150 ORs, so a sizeable force and therefore given a number of tasks.  With the 10th Brigade now in position, the 11th Brigade defended from the Bray-Corbie road (site of the current 3rd Division memorial) down to the Somme.  We can locate the position of 16 Vickers machine guns on the 29th March and if he was in one of the forward positions the next day, then a prime target for enemy gunners or aircraft.  Page 95 of the appendix has a note from CAPT Taylor (?) of the MG Coy showing just where the guns were, with 4 Vickers near the present memorial and 12 around Sailly-le-Sec. Position of each group of 4 guns is marked in blue and the centre of the target area each had responsibility for is marked with a red pin.  Taylor's field note book is on the right hand side of the image and clearly he saw the greatest threat from Sailly-Laurette.  The intelligence report for 43 Battalion said that they were engaged mainly in anti-aircraft with occasional long shots at enemy.  They requested 200,000 rounds ready for the engagement.  The 10th MG Coy were around 800 metres to the north of the Bray-Corbie road.

 

The 30th saw a Divisional attack on the 11th Brigade from Sailly-le-Sec and Sailly-Laurette.  The attack was repulsed with heavy casualties on the German side and light casualties from the Australians, mostly from those taking bets for a few francs with a mate on which German they could hit and then leaving their trench to get a better shot.  I have the books of each battalion and each say the same thing and one pays tribute to the German machine gunners - first to fire and last to leave.  They also had aircraft supporting the German attack.

 

We know that the 11th Coy machine guns stayed during the Divisional attack, as:

1. At 2 am on the 30th 3 machine guns and 3 Lewis Gunners left for Sailly-le-Sec.  They reported that they would "employ harassing fire from 2 am to daylight in Sailly-Laurette Valley" and (hard to read) support 42 and 43 Bns.
2. Later, 42 Bn reported that the guns of 11th MG Coy were in action in their trenches under SGT Watley (?) and required more ammunition.
3. Late on the 30th, 11th Brigade HQ detailed the 4 Vickers guns in J.28.b.9.4 (500m NW of Sailly-le-Sec) to move ready to protect the left forward flank (presumably Bray-Corbie road).

 

To finish, here is the church in Sailly-le-Sec as he would have seen it, picture taken by my grandfather.  One of the battalions reported an elderly couple leaving as the town looked like this.  We've stood on this stop a few times in the last few years.

[Blackblue]

Nice one. Only KIA from 11th MG Coy that day was 471a PTE Turner. Buried J.29.c.70.75 (it appears), later recovered from J.29.b.8.2. 

[WhiteStarLine]

Eddie, here is confirmation of everything Tim and I have posted, from the parent unit of the 11th Machine Gun Coy.  I had forgotten to access this when you said that the 11th MG Coy unit war diary stopped in Feb 1918 as our usual practice is to then jump to the parent unit, in this case the 3rd Australian Machine Gun Battalion.  Fortunately this confirms everything we said and adds a more detailed map.  It also confirms that the 11th detrained at Doullens and marched via Thievres (which is where my grandfather's section sought shelter from his machine gunners against the Uhlans).

 

I won't retype the war diary for that day - interesting that a combination of direct and indirect fire was used.  Indirect fire meant that enemy hidden from view behind a ridge were still being machine-gunned - saw it demonstrated in the 1980s with tracer and it was a scary to watch:

 

 

Gun positions are shown, confirming most guns were near Sailly-le-Sec as described and one section was up at the cross-roads near the current Third Division Memorial:

 

[Blackblue]

Doh! Didn't even think that as most other Coys War Diaries run through April and beyond!

 

Nice one. 

 

[Top notch]

Hi Tim and White Star Line,

I have woken this morning, 1st May, to find the latest content you both posted. Once again I am very grateful to you both, your knowledge and expertise is marvellous.

I now have grasped the picture of the events leading up to Private Speak's wounding and with the help of your maps and modern day Google maps I have been able to build a bigger picture of the action.

My interest stems from research I have been doing into my uncle who joined the Worcestershire Regt., as a private, in 1910. He served in India and Burma. He returned to UK in early 1915 and was sent to Gallipoli. He landed with the Worcesters and they attempted to link up with the Australians. He was shot in the chest whilst charging Turkish trenches. He survived the wounds and was returned to the Regiment at Passchendaele, as a Sargeant in December 1917. In early 1918, he successfully completed an officers course in Rhyll, North Wales and returned to the Regiment as a 2nd. Lt. He was in the fighting around Arras and was gassed at a place called Oppy, in August 1918. He was returned to UK from the base hospital at Wimeraux, to complete his recovery. Unfortunately he took his own life with his service revolver on 28th. October, 1918. He is buried in a military grave near Gloucester, UK.

My youngest son and I have visited the battlefields he fought on and managed to "track down" the actual spot, in Oppy where he was wounded by mustard gas shells. We laid a wreath there in 1918. 

My son and I had planned to return this July to explore the Somme battlefields and had booked hotels and tours (unfortunately Covid 19 has put paid to that). It was purely by chance, whilst researching the Somme fighting, that purely by chance, I came across the name of Private Speak. 

Now armed with the information you've provided I plan to visit the area he fought and the cemetery at Etaples (when travel is permitted once more!!).

When my son and I manage this trip, I will update you both on results.

In the meantime, thank you both so much for your help.

Stay safe,

Eddie.  

[Top notch]

Dear Tim and White Star Line,

Obviously it should read "we laid a wreath there in 2018"!!!!!!!!

Eddie.

[WhiteStarLine]

1 minute ago, Top notch said:

took his own life with his service revolver on 28th. October, 1918

So sad to hear.  Have a happy trip when you eventually get there.

[Top notch]

Hi Tim and White Star Line,

Further to our recent correspondence, I have some interesting updates on the research you helped me with on Private Thomas Speak.!

First of all, I have managed to find a copy photograph of Private Thomas Speak in his AIF uniform, no date though.

I have also managed to trace his ancestry back to his great grandparents, on his mother's side. They always lived in the Blackburn area of Lancashire.

I've also answered the "riddle" why his mother had the name Mary Jane Eastwood Speak, on correspondence from the AIF?

Thomas Speak's mother's maiden name was Wade. She married John Speak on 8/11/1890. They had a son they named Edgar, in 1891. In 1892, Thomas was born. Then on 13.11.1894 , they had a daughter named Margaret Agnes Speak.

In 1896, Private Thomas Speak's father, John Speak died. He was 34 and had been a stonemason.

Mary's first son Edgar also died. She moved back to her father's house. In 1908 Mary Jane married William Eastwood, hence her name becoming Mary Jane Eastwood. Thomas' sister Margaret Agnes went on to marry in July, 1922 (my research on her is ongoing).

Thomas Speak had a cousin named Edward Wade. His father was Mary Jane's brother. Edward  Wade also emigrated to Australia and he also joined the AIF in 1916.

I wonder if it is possible that you could help me further research the following?

I would like to find out more on Thomas' cousin Edward Wade. All I know of him is that he had emigrated to Australia, I would like to find out when and if he and Thomas travelled together, from England?

Edward Wade was living at the "Commercial Hotel", Queensland. He joined the AIF in 1916 and he would have been 26 then. The only Private Edward Wade I could find had a service number 3016, he was a miner, 25 years old in Rockhampton, Queensland and his father was James Wade. The only thing is, this Edward Wade is listed as having come from the London area of England, whereas Thomas' cousin Edward was born near Blackburn, Lancs!! Can you help me sort this out? The only other thing I do know was that Edward Wade had won a medal in a rifle competition.

The other thing I'd like help with is that Thomas Speak had a girlfriend, when he was in Australia. She was named Jeanie? Dearie, her address on 10.6. 1918 was 22, St. Hilliers Road, Auburn, NSW. (Interestingly, my own son worked at the University Of Technology, Sydney, not that far away). I have a copy letter written by Jeanie Dearie written to the authorities requesting information on her "young man", Thomas Speak. I would love to know what became of her, if you can help me? The only reference I can find is a Miss Jennie Mcg Dearie, born 1894 birth registered in the district of Granville? Then there is reference to the same named person marrying a Ferdinand S, in Auburn in 1921. Could this have been Thomas' former sweetheart?

I hope you can assist to answer these questions and help build the bigger picture on Private Thomas Speak. Thanks in anticipation, Eddie.

P.S. I have also found out that Private Thomas Speak is recorded on the war memorial in the town of his birth, Read, near Burnley. 

[WhiteStarLine]

On 20/05/2020 at 02:39, Top notch said:

Thomas' cousin Edward was born near Blackburn, Lancs!! Can you help me sort this out?

Eddie, I think you want this Edward Wade, born in Lancashire England. Enlisted in 1916.  Father residing in Lancashire.  In the same Division and in 1918 in the same village in France as Thomas Speak.  We use the AIF Project search a lot as you can follow a soldier, who was in the same troopship and many other details.

 

Regimental number	3148
Place of birth	Great Horwood England
Religion	Church of England
Occupation	Groom
Address	Clermont, Queensland
Marital status	Single
Age at embarkation	24
Next of kin	Father, James Wade, 64 Park Road, Gt Harwood, Lancashire, England
Enlistment date	9 November 1916
Rank on enlistment	Private
Unit name	41st Battalion, 7th Reinforcement
AWM Embarkation Roll number	23/58/3
Embarkation details	Unit embarked from Sydney, New South Wales, on board HMAT A18 Wiltshire on 7 February 1917
Rank from Nominal Roll	Private
Unit from Nominal Roll	41st Battalion
Fate	Returned to Australia 31 March 1919

[Top notch]

Hello White Star Line,

Thank you, again. It was indeed the Edward Wade I was looking for and I even managed to access his AIF file. Seems he was wounded twice (no mention of where in France injuries occurred). It would be nice to think he met up with his cousin Thomas in France? Also, he (like Thomas) went AWOL whilst in England. Perhaps they both went to visit their families up in Lancashire?

Can you give me any pointers as to where I might find out more on Jeanie Dearie? It would be lovely to find out more about her, what became of her, etc. Also, as Edward Wade returned to Australia in 1919, where might I search to find out what became of him. I note from his AIF files, he returned two of his medals in 1938? so assume he was still alive then?

Thanks again for the help.

Eddie.

[WhiteStarLine]

Sure, we use Trove, the fantastic and free National Library of Australia resource.  Almost every old newspaper, magazine etc has been scanned and you can even help out interpreting scanned text.  It's a bit of an art but you can start honing in on a decade and a location and keep searching.  I found a dozen entries on my grandfather from around 1908 to 1914 in Queensland and a few brief mentions on his return.  Trove has passenger lists, family notices, births, deaths and marriages and much more.

 

Work out red herrings ("dearie" was a common greeting and used in theatrical extracts).  You might be lucky, or not...  There's an active community who correct and tag people / events etc.

 

For Edward Wade, start with his return to Australia in Brisbane.  That would have made the local paper.  Then search for his name, particularly military reunions, if he attended them.  I am uncertain what happened with his medals - it looks as if they were not collected and returned to the store many years later.  If he returned them there would be official correspondence and acknowledgement.  Who knows what transpired, with injuries to the knee, neck and jaw?

 

Trove searches are done like this https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=Jeanie+Dearie.  For additional searches on passenger lists and other details, try our National Archives, totally free, at https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/BasicSearch.aspx.

 

Edward Wade would have had many an opportunity to socialise with Thomas as the brigade moved around a lot and had rotations in and out of the line and were billeted in nearby villages.  Edward even travelled on the same troopship as someone in my grandfather's signal section.  I checked my copy of the 41st Battalion book and there seems to be only 1 mention of E. Wade, in the nominal roll.  He was first wounded during an area strafe (heavy shelling) which caused causalities.  He suffered a wound to his left knee.  His battalion was left forward battalion around Abraham Heights and this was on 14/10/1917, about 1.7 km from Zonnebeke.  He returned from hospital in November and was next injured on 1 September 1918 during the capture of Mont St Quentin and Peronne.  He suffered a GSW (gunshot wound face, ie neck and jaw) and was wounded enough to be shipped back to the UK, to Weymouth Military Hospital.  He was still an invalid on repatriation to Australia in March 1919 and he was discharged on 20 June 1919 from 1 MD (1 Military District, ie Brisbane Queensland).

 

The brigade were between Hill 40 and Abraham Heights with Bde HQ near Mitchells Farm at the time.

 

[Blackblue]

That's great news Eddie. Incidentally a relative of mine was RSM of the 41st Bn in 18 (Harry Tesch) and a good friend of mine's Grandfather won the VC with them in Aug 18 (LCPL Barney Gordon). 

 

Jeanie Dearie appears in a number of trees on Ancestry. She married a Ferdinand (Frank) Selwyn Crouch and died in 1973 at Parramatta, Sydney. There are two female offspring listed - Betty and Shirley. Frank was from Parramatta and embarked with the 4th Bn but was allocated to the 56th Bn in Egypt when the AIF was expanded. It appears he never saw action as it looks as though he was invalided home from France with a hernia before joining his Bn.

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=3470816

 

I can try and make contact with those on Ancestry if you wish...there are a few trees though most are quite large which limits the chances of someone having a direct connection. 

 

Tim

[Top notch]

Hello White Star Line and Tim,

Thank you both, once again, for the replies to my query.

I have lots of research I can do now on Edward Wade, Jeanie Dearie and Ferdinand Crouch.

I am still in awe of the records you have available in Australia. I have been able to access the links you sent me as a "guest", if however, this is short term, perhaps I could access them through my son who has dual UK/Australian citizenship!!

Isn't it amazing how "the fickle hand of fate" deals the cards? I had two uncles fighting in France and Flanders, one was wounded twice and shot himself, my other uncle volunteered in 1914, went to France in 1915 and was wounded and finally discharged in 1917. Thomas Speak was shot and died, his cousin Edward Wade was wounded twice, but survived. Whereas Ferdinand Crouch got to France but "suffered a hernia", was sent home, discharged, awarded a pension and received his medals. Wasn't he one of the luckiest men alive at the time?

Thanks once more both. Hope to hear from you again?

Very best wishes, Eddie.

[Blackblue]

Great story Eddie, 

Please let us know if you need any further assistance. 

 

Tim