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Continuing the theme of the batteries of the Motor Machine Gun Service which served in India, this is my list of those who served with 15th MMG Battery, drawn largely from the medal roll of the IGSM 08 with Afghanistan/NWF 1919 bar:  

 

What do I know about the battery as a whole? As with 3, 14 and 19 Batteries, after service in France on the Western front in 1915/16/17, by January 1918 they had shipped to India and were stationed in Peshawar, as part of 1st Indian Division, They were involved in the 3rd Afghan War, but so far as I can tell were retained in Peshawar (which was being locked down following a planned uprising which was nipped in the bud) during the initial fighting in the Khyber pass. According to the Official History, 15th Motor Machine Gun Battery formed part of the Shabkadr column under command of 44 Inf Bde, which left Peshawar on 21 May, to reinforce the Mohmand blockade ivo Subhan Khwar. They returned back to Peshawar by 30 May as the Afghans withdrew. They also appear to have been part of the operations on 19th July, which located a party of Afridi tribesman on Karawal Hill, 7 1/2 miles west of Bara Fort, but are not mentioned in the actual attack on the hill on 22nd Jul.

 

Any further information about their operations on the NWF or on the battery personnel in India would be appreciated.

 

Service No. Rank. Name
  Captain Claude Outram Dalgairns ANDERSON
  Lieutenant  
3223 (A/Cpl) Lieutenant Philip JEFFRIES
  2nd.Lieutenant  
  2nd.Lieutenant  
     
M.M.G.S    
     
     
875 Gunner James McCOLL
905 Gunner Hiram BROWN
934 Sgt. George W GRANTHAM
1039 Sgt. Alexander CLARK
1089 Gunner Duncan McINNES
1195 Gunner John WILKIE
1209 Gunner Samuel AUSTEN
1267 Cpl Robert GREIG
1298 Gunner William MANN
1305 Cpl James MILNE
1308 Gunner George MORRISON
1637 Gunner Charles E JONES
1796 Gunner John CULLOCH
2052 Gunner Jack BAILEY
2093 Cpl John Tydwal ROBERTS KIA Jun 19
2270 Gunner John W SUTHERLAND
2281 Gunner Frederick ATKINSON
2393 BSM Harry TROTMAN
2402 Gunner Percy HARDY
2580 Gunner Harold WALLER
2722 Gunner Thomas Arthur KERRY
     
     
     
MGC(M)    
     
32142 Gunner Phillip Henry HAMPTON
36576 Cpl Walter UNDERWOOD
38560 Gunner William H TURREL
38694 Gunner Reginald W NORTON
38819 Gunner Ernest A SHEARS
38842 Gunner Frederick W SMITH
55533 Gunner  George A BARTON
67870 Gunner James MAHON
69037 Gunner Eric K ROBINSON
69046 Gunner James A W HAMILTON
69052 Gunner William M GOODSON
69072 Gunner Alfred TAYLOR
79374 Gunner William PLATT
79378 Gunner William STEPHENS
79380 Gunner Stanley George BRUNNING
79382 Gunner Alvin WILLIS
79384 Gunner George SULLIVAN
79453 Gunner Thomas FRASER
79458 Gunner George JEFFERY
79513 Gunner Henry W LATHAM
79515 A/Cpl Albert H WASE
79538 A/Cpl Arthur Charles WILKINSON
79558 Gunner C F CARTER
79560 Gunner Louis J PIPER
79561 Gunner William M FRICKER
80558 Gunner James HAISMAN
80571 Gunner John WILLIAMS
80575 Gunner James THOMSON
80577 Gunner George PARRY
80578 Gunner William T STEWARD
80579 Gunner James SELLARS
80580 Gunner Arthur SEAMAN
80581 Gunner Albert E WOODHOUSE
80582 Gunner James H WATSON
80583 Gunner Alexander J SINGLETON
80584 Gunner William RICHARDS
80586 Gunner Reginald HUGHES
80587 Gunner Edwin CARR
80588 Gunner Harold KINSEY
80589 Gunner Robert LEWIS
80590 Gunner Albert SYMES
80591 Gunner Thomas J HAWKINS
80592 Gunner Alfred T WRIGHT
80596 Gunner Leonard NIELD
80598 Pte George GUNDY
80599 Gunner  Edwin H DARK
80600 Gunner John S CROSBY
80601 Gunner Albert Edward RIVETT
80602 Gunner Thomas H WILLIAMS
80603 Gunner John HOLLAND
80604 Gunner Reuben C COLE
81787 Gunner James OLIVER
     
ASC    
M2/105282 A/Sgt.  F WADDINGTON
M2/26194 Cpl J PROCTOR
M2/073664 Private

W A ANDERSON

 

Edited by pjwmacro
Updated John Roberts
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  • 2 months later...
pjwmacro

According to the Official History of the Third Afghan War, 15th Motor Machine Gun Battery formed part of the Shabkadr column under command of 44 Inf Bde, which left Peshawar on 21 May, to reinforce the Mohmand blockade ivo Subhan Khwar. They returned back to Peshawar by 30 May as the Afghans withdrew. They also appear to have been part of the operations on 19th July, which located a party of Afridi tribesman on Karawal Hill, 7 1/2 miles west of Bara Fort, but are not mentioned in the actual attack on the hill on 22nd Jul.

 

Can anyone tell me more about these actions? Are they described in George Molesworth's book, "An Account of Operations in the Third Afghan War" - sadly I don't have a copy! Or in Brian Robson's "Crisis on the Frontier" - my copy has been left in storage while on posting!

 

Thanks, Paul

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david murdoch

Few days ago grandson of 32142 Gunner Phillip Henry Hampton posted on the MCG/OCA page. He has surviving record, and this shows he joined 15th MMG in November 1916 probably as a casualty replacement about a year before they moved to India. Interestingly his record notes he was in Armoured Car Section in spring 1916 

India casualties for 15th MMG in addition to Lt Philip Jeffries  I have are :-

 

 

Gunner WALTER EDWARD HAMLIN

Service Number: 80594 MGC(M)

Died 28 October 1918 Age 27 years old

Commemorated on Delhi Memorial.

He died of Spanish Flu and is actually buried in Peshawar. His death predates 3rd Afghan so no GSM. He was ex 203847 Royal Warwickshire Reg. and has British War Medal only - indicating transfer to battery in India.

 

Gunner WILLIAM HILL

Service Number: 80595 MGC(M)

Died 16th November 1918 aged 22

Also died of Spanish Flu.

Commemorated on Delhi Memorial, but buried in Peshawar.

He was ex Pte.12623 Welsh Regiment. Has British War Medal and Victory Medal, but presumably transferred and renumbered in India.

 

These two are in the same transfer group as  80593 Horace Dodworth who went to 14th MMG.

 

Corporal JOHN TYDWAL ROBERTS

Service Number: 2093 MMGS/MGC(M)

Died 1st June 1919 aged 23. Buried Peshawar 2nd June 1919

Killed in action. Cause of death gunshot wound to head. Probate notes place of death as Khyber Pass, Peshawar.

Commemorated on Delhi Memorial, but buried in Peshawar.

1915 Star (entry 30/9/1915), British War Medal, Victory Medal and IGSM with clasp.

Got quite a bit on this lad so will do a write up on him.

     
Edited by david murdoch
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pjwmacro
2 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Few days ago grandson of 32142 Gunner Phillip Henry Hampton posted on the MCG/OCA page.

Thanks David.

I have spoken with David Henshall before via the MGC/OCA fb page on a couple of occasions- not sure if he is on here as well. Philip Hampton appears to have said virtually nothing about his experiences- so there isn't much to go on beyond the records.

Look forward to your write up on Roberts - is he the one shiwn on the medal role as 15 Sqn? Or am I thinking of someone else? Date of death is interesting too - as according to the official history 15 Bty MMG had returned to Pershawar from  Subhan Khwar by then!

 

Regards, Paul 

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david murdoch
34 minutes ago, pjwmacro said:

Thanks David.

I have spoken with David Henshall before via the MGC/OCA fb page on a couple of occasions- not sure if he is on here as well. Philip Hampton appears to have said virtually nothing about his experiences- so there isn't much to go on beyond the records.

Look forward to your write up on Roberts - is he the one shiwn on the medal role as 15 Sqn? Or am I thinking of someone else? Date of death is interesting too - as according to the official history 15 Bty MMG had returned to Pershawar from  Subhan Khwar by then!

 

Regards, Paul 

Yes he's wrongly listed as 15th Sq. His Indian burial record has 15th MMG. Would need war diary to find out what happened to him and exactly where. He was certainly shot and killed outright on 1st then buried in Peshawar on 2nd, so presumably brought back there. The Khyber Pass on the probate may be a red herring. They may have been ambushed when out on the road.

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pjwmacro
9 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Would need war diary to find out what happened to him and exactly where

Thanks again David.

Sadly so far I have only located a War Diary (for the NWF) for 22 Bty. Nothing for 3, 15 or 19 Btys. Need to check for Bde (and potentially Div) diaries - 44 Bde in this case - but of course non of these are digitised, so not likely to be any tine soon.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 22:28, pjwmacro said:

According to the Official History of the Third Afghan War, 15th Motor Machine Gun Battery formed part of the Shabkadr column under command of 44 Inf Bde, which left Peshawar on 21 May, to reinforce the Mohmand blockade ivo Subhan Khwar. They returned back to Peshawar by 30 May as the Afghans withdrew. They also appear to have been part of the operations on 19th July, which located a party of Afridi tribesman on Karawal Hill, 7 1/2 miles west of Bara Fort, but are not mentioned in the actual attack on the hill on 22nd Jul.

 

Can anyone tell me more about these actions? Are they described in George Molesworth's book, "An Account of Operations in the Third Afghan War" - sadly I don't have a copy! Or in Brian Robson's "Crisis on the Frontier" - my copy has been left in storage while on posting!

 

Thanks, Paul

 

Have just put a request in Documents Wants etc - looking for copies of George Molesworth's or Brian Robson's books, 

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  • 1 month later...
david murdoch

2093 Cpl John Tydwal Roberts.

He was born was born in New Tredegar, Monmouthshire in 1895. His parents Ellis Maelor Roberts b.1865 d, 1903 and  Anne Roberts b. 1865  His father, the Reverend Ellis Maelor Roberts, was the minister in the town’s Welsh Congregational Chapel at that time. His parents married in 1894 and had three sons . The eldest two John Tydwal born 1895, Ellis Glyndwr born 8th March 1899 in New Tredegar.  Due to Congregational ministers requirement to move parishes on a regular basis the family left New Tredegar in 1897 and moved to Llandovery in Camarthenshire and third son, Thomas, was born here in 1900.

On the 1901 Census the family were living in Noyadd, Llanfair ar y Bryn, Llandovery, Camarthenshire. At this time the sons are noted as only speaking Welsh whereas the parents were bilingual.

In 1903 their father died aged only 37. At the same time his wife was expecting a fourth child. He was born 4th June 1903 and named William Maelor Roberts.

Annie Roberts by 1911 Census had moved back to Dyserth where she was originally from. On the census she was living with John (aged 15) and Willie the youngest aged 7. There is no record of John’s or his mother’s occupations at this time. The other two sons are not listed on the same census return – possibly living with other relatives or fostered.

When WW1 started John enlisted in the Motor Machine Gun Service - he travelled to Coventry and enlisted through The Motorcycle in the first week of August 1915 and he appears in their recruits listing in the 12th August issue. He has two Medal Index Cards. One showing his BWM/VM and also his later GSM. There is a separate one with just a 1915 Star. This shows he went to France on 30th September 1915 and as a corporal. As 15th MMG were already in France by then he must have joined them likely as a casualty replacement. He served in France and then went with the Battery to India. He was Killed in action 1st June 1919 aged 23. The circumstances of his death are unclear without a war diary to reference. His probate notes place of death as Khyber Pass, but this may just be a generalisation of the area. His Indian burial record shows he was buried in Peshawar the following day -  2nd of June 1919 and cause of death as a gunshot wound to the head, so it would appear he was killed outright  - possibly in a confrontation with hostiles or perhaps an unlucky  sniper victim of a tribesman.  The most likely area of his death is somewhere along what is now the N5 running from Peshawar up to the pass at Landi Kotal on the Indian side of the border. He must have been brought back to Peshawar fairly quickly by his comrades. There are no other British casualties noted on that day being buried in Pashawar – there are several Indian casualties on that day all commemorated on Deli Memorial but no details where they may have fallen. He was buried at Peshawar Left British Cemetery Plot 8 grave 444. This cemetery could not be maintained by CWGC and so he is now commemorated on the Deli Memorial. Both his original burial report and Indian burial record list him as being M.M.G.S! His CWGC memorial page lists him erroneously as being 15th Sqdn and date of death as 2nd June 1919

His was not married and his soldiers effects of £102,15s,1d went to his mother. His probate dated 29th June 1920 left a further £137,15s,1d to his mother. His mother also claimed a dependants pension.

He is remembered on Dyserth war memorial and also on a plaque inside the Horeb Chapel (United Reformed Church), High Street, Dyserth which commemorates two members of the congregation who fell in WW1. He is also noted on the New Tredegar war memorial page as having been originally from the town but not on the actual war memorial.

What became of his family is difficult to establish. Due to common name have not identified when his mother died or where, but two of the brothers Ellis Glyndwr Roberts died 21st May 1977 in Wrexham, Wales and the youngest William Maelor Roberts died 5th September 1965 in Wrexham, Wales. Indications are he never married.

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Unnamed M.M.G.S. Coy, Armistice parade, Peshawar. 1918. 

Trucks of 692 Coy. A.S.C. Khyber Pass.

 

Peshawar. 1918. (2).jpg

Peshawar. 1918. M.M.G.Corps (3).jpg

Peshawar- Khyber Pass 1918. (11).jpg

Peshawar- Khyber Pass 1918. (9).jpg

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david murdoch

Interesting photos. Any more background to them? Certainly the MMG battery parading is taken same time and place as the armoured cars. However the armoured cars look like 1914 pattern/1920 chassis type (by the wheels and mud guards) so would date them later than 1918. There were just a few (Rolls Royce) armoured cars on the North West Frontier  - those photos so far identified being there in 1919 during 3rd Afghan War were original 1914 pattern but with NAP tyres fitted on solid bolted wheels.  At the same time the presence of the MMG battery would date no later early 1920 as all MMG batteries disbanded and the personnel shipped home then.

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1 hour ago, david murdoch said:

Interesting photos. Any more background to them? Certainly the MMG battery parading is taken same time and place as the armoured cars. However the armoured cars look like 1914 pattern/1920 chassis type (by the wheels and mud guards) so would date them later than 1918. There were just a few (Rolls Royce) armoured cars on the North West Frontier  - those photos so far identified being there in 1919 during 3rd Afghan War were original 1914 pattern but with NAP tyres fitted on solid bolted wheels.  At the same time the presence of the MMG battery would date no later early 1920 as all MMG batteries disbanded and the personnel shipped home then.

Hi David,

 The photographs are part of a collection showing military and civilian subjects in and around Peshawar. There are clear dates and notations for most of the pictures which all relate to "Horace" of 692 Coy. A.S.C.

The parade photographs show MMG vehicles, Royal Artillery, Infantry , and Native Cavalry,  are all subtitled "Armistice Parade, Peshawar, 11 November 1918".

 Unit badges featured in some photographs seem to confirm the date.

(Badge designed  by  Pte. A/Cpl. A/CQMS. DM2/155311. Edwin James Langford  and  Pte. M2/167723 - Reginald Brinsley Chaffey). 

Peshawar. 1918. 692 ASC (7).jpg

Edited by GWF1967
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david murdoch
1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Hi David,

 The photographs are part of a collection showing military and civilian subjects in and around Peshawar. There are clear dates and notations for most of the pictures which all relate to "Horace" of 692 Coy. A.S.C.

The parade photographs show MMG vehicles, Royal Artillery, Infantry , and Native Cavalry,  are all subtitled "Armistice Parade, Peshawar, 11 November 1918".

 Unit badges featured in some photographs seem to confirm the date.

 

Thanks  for the confirmation of the date/location. I have an interest in the armoured cars as well as the MMG units. I'll endeavour to pin down which unit those armoured car belong too.  I'd say the most likely candidates for the MMG Battery is 22nd or 15th to be in that area in November 1918.  3rd,14th and 19th were also in India, but in other locations. Carving unit badges into rocks seems to have been quite a common practice going further back - certainly some of these still survive today.

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9 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

 The photographs are part of a collection showing military and civilian subjects in and around Peshawar. There are clear dates and notations for most of the pictures which all relate to "Horace" of 692 Coy. A.S.C.

 

 

Great photos, thank you for sharing

 

Regards, Paul

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7 hours ago, david murdoch said:

I'd say the most likely candidates for the MMG Battery is 22nd or 15th to be in that area in November 1918

 

I`d agree - with a leaning towards 15 MMG as actually being stationed in Peshawar, when 22 MMG were in Rawalpindi. My grandfather (who was 22 MMG), however, was in Egypt undergoing flying training in Nov 1918, so I`m afraid none of his letters are any help in this case.

 

Regards, Paul

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On 15/09/2020 at 21:44, david murdoch said:

2093 Cpl John Tydwal Roberts.

He was born was born in New Tredegar, Monmouthshire in 1895. His parents Ellis Maelor Roberts b.1865 d, 1903 and  Anne Roberts b. 1865  His father, the Reverend Ellis Maelor Roberts, was the minister in the town’s Welsh Congregational Chapel at that time. His parents married in 1894 and had three sons . The eldest two John Tydwal born 1895,

Great research David, thanks for sharing.

 

Regards Paul

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david murdoch
34 minutes ago, pjwmacro said:

 

I`d agree - with a leaning towards 15 MMG as actually being stationed in Peshawar, when 22 MMG were in Rawalpindi. My grandfather (who was 22 MMG), however, was in Egypt undergoing flying training in Nov 1918, so I`m afraid none of his letters are any help in this case.

 

Regards, Paul

Paul. I'd say most likely 15th MMG as they were actually based there certainly in late 1918. There are 15th MMG casualties  October, November and December  died and buried in Peshawar.

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