15th Motor Machine Gun Battery India 1918 and 1919

[pjwmacro]

Continuing the theme of the batteries of the Motor Machine Gun Service which served in India, this is my list of those who served with 15th MMG Battery, drawn largely from the medal roll of the IGSM 08 with Afghanistan/NWF 1919 bar:  

 

What do I know about the battery as a whole? As with 3, 14 and 19 Batteries, after service in France on the Western front in 1915/16/17, by January 1918 they had shipped to India and were stationed in Peshawar, as part of 1st Indian Division, They were involved in the 3rd Afghan War, but so far as I can tell were retained in Peshawar (which was being locked down following a planned uprising which was nipped in the bud) during the initial fighting in the Khyber pass. According to the Official History, 15th Motor Machine Gun Battery formed part of the Shabkadr column under command of 44 Inf Bde, which left Peshawar on 21 May, to reinforce the Mohmand blockade ivo Subhan Khwar. They returned back to Peshawar by 30 May as the Afghans withdrew. They also appear to have been part of the operations on 19th July, which located a party of Afridi tribesman on Karawal Hill, 7 1/2 miles west of Bara Fort, but are not mentioned in the actual attack on the hill on 22nd Jul.

 

Any further information about their operations on the NWF or on the battery personnel in India would be appreciated.

 

Service No.	Rank.	Name
	Captain	Claude Outram Dalgairns ANDERSON
	Lieutenant
3223 (A/Cpl)	Lieutenant	Philip JEFFRIES
	Lieutenant	Arthur PARR
	2nd.Lieutenant
M.M.G.S
875	Gunner	James McCOLL
905	Gunner	Hiram BROWN
934	Sgt.	George W GRANTHAM
1039	Sgt.	Alexander CLARK
1089	Gunner	Duncan McINNES
1195	Gunner	John WILKIE
1209	Gunner	Samuel AUSTEN
1267	Cpl	Robert GREIG
1298	Gunner	William MANN
1305	Cpl	James MILNE
1308	Gunner	George MORRISON
1637	Gunner	Charles E JONES
1796	Gunner	John CULLOCH
2052	Gunner	Jack BAILEY
2093	Cpl	John Tydwal ROBERTS KIA Jun 19
2270	Gunner	John W SUTHERLAND
2281	Gunner	Frederick ATKINSON
2393	BSM	Harry TROTMAN
2402	Gunner	Percy HARDY
2580	Gunner	Harold WALLER
2722	Gunner	Thomas Arthur KERRY
MGC(M)
32142	Gunner	Phillip Henry HAMPTON
36576	Cpl	Walter UNDERWOOD
38560	Gunner	William H TURREL
38694	Gunner	Reginald W NORTON
38819	Gunner	Ernest A SHEARS
38842	Gunner	Frederick W SMITH
55533	Gunner	George A BARTON
67870	Gunner	James MAHON
69037	Gunner	Eric K ROBINSON
69046	Gunner	James A W HAMILTON
69052	Gunner	William M GOODSON
69072	Gunner	Alfred TAYLOR
79374	Gunner	William PLATT
79378	Gunner	William STEPHENS
79380	Gunner	Stanley George BRUNNING
79382	Gunner	Alvin WILLIS
79384	Gunner	George SULLIVAN
79453	Gunner	Thomas FRASER
79458	Gunner	George JEFFERY
79513	Gunner	Henry W LATHAM
79515	A/Cpl	Albert H WASE
79538	A/Cpl	Arthur Charles WILKINSON
79558	Gunner	C F CARTER
79560	Gunner	Louis J PIPER
79561	Gunner	William M FRICKER
80558	Gunner	James HAISMAN
80571	Gunner	John WILLIAMS
80575	Gunner	James THOMSON
80577	Gunner	George PARRY
80578	Gunner	William T STEWARD
80579	Gunner	James SELLARS
80580	Gunner	Arthur SEAMAN
80581	Gunner	Albert E WOODHOUSE
80582	Gunner	James H WATSON
80583	Gunner	Alexander J SINGLETON
80584	Gunner	William RICHARDS
80586	Gunner	Reginald HUGHES
80587	Gunner	Edwin CARR
80588	Gunner	Harold KINSEY
80589	Gunner	Robert LEWIS
80590	Gunner	Albert SYMES
80591	Gunner	Thomas J HAWKINS
80592	Gunner	Alfred T WRIGHT
80596	Gunner	Leonard NIELD
80598	Pte	George GUNDY
80599	Gunner	Edwin H DARK
80600	Gunner	John S CROSBY
80601	Gunner	Albert Edward RIVETT
80602	Gunner	Thomas H WILLIAMS
80603	Gunner	John HOLLAND
80604	Gunner	Reuben C COLE
81787	Gunner	James OLIVER
ASC
M2/105282	A/Sgt.	F WADDINGTON
M2/26194	Cpl	J PROCTOR
M2/073664	Private	W A ANDERSON

Edited 10 January , 2022 by pjwmacro
Updated John Roberts, Added Arthur Parr

[pjwmacro]

According to the Official History of the Third Afghan War, 15th Motor Machine Gun Battery formed part of the Shabkadr column under command of 44 Inf Bde, which left Peshawar on 21 May, to reinforce the Mohmand blockade ivo Subhan Khwar. They returned back to Peshawar by 30 May as the Afghans withdrew. They also appear to have been part of the operations on 19th July, which located a party of Afridi tribesman on Karawal Hill, 7 1/2 miles west of Bara Fort, but are not mentioned in the actual attack on the hill on 22nd Jul.

 

Can anyone tell me more about these actions? Are they described in George Molesworth's book, "An Account of Operations in the Third Afghan War" - sadly I don't have a copy! Or in Brian Robson's "Crisis on the Frontier" - my copy has been left in storage while on posting!

 

Thanks, Paul

[david murdoch]

Few days ago grandson of 32142 Gunner Phillip Henry Hampton posted on the MCG/OCA page. He has surviving record, and this shows he joined 15th MMG in November 1916 probably as a casualty replacement about a year before they moved to India. Interestingly his record notes he was in Armoured Car Section in spring 1916 

India casualties for 15th MMG in addition to Lt Philip Jeffries  I have are :-

 

 

Gunner WALTER EDWARD HAMLIN

Service Number: 80594 MGC(M)

Died 28 October 1918 Age 27 years old

Commemorated on Delhi Memorial.

He died of Spanish Flu and is actually buried in Peshawar. His death predates 3^rd Afghan so no GSM. He was ex 203847 Royal Warwickshire Reg. and has British War Medal only - indicating transfer to battery in India.

 

Gunner WILLIAM HILL

Service Number: 80595 MGC(M)

Died 16th November 1918 aged 22

Also died of Spanish Flu.

Commemorated on Delhi Memorial, but buried in Peshawar.

He was ex Pte.12623 Welsh Regiment. Has British War Medal and Victory Medal, but presumably transferred and renumbered in India.

 

These two are in the same transfer group as  80593 Horace Dodworth who went to 14th MMG.

 

Corporal JOHN TYDWAL ROBERTS

Service Number: 2093 MMGS/MGC(M)

Died 1st June 1919 aged 23. Buried Peshawar 2^nd June 1919

Killed in action. Cause of death gunshot wound to head. Probate notes place of death as Khyber Pass, Peshawar.

Commemorated on Delhi Memorial, but buried in Peshawar.

1915 Star (entry 30/9/1915), British War Medal, Victory Medal and IGSM with clasp.

Got quite a bit on this lad so will do a write up on him.

Edited 23 July , 2020 by david murdoch

[pjwmacro]

2 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Few days ago grandson of 32142 Gunner Phillip Henry Hampton posted on the MCG/OCA page.

Thanks David.

I have spoken with David Henshall before via the MGC/OCA fb page on a couple of occasions- not sure if he is on here as well. Philip Hampton appears to have said virtually nothing about his experiences- so there isn't much to go on beyond the records.

Look forward to your write up on Roberts - is he the one shiwn on the medal role as 15 Sqn? Or am I thinking of someone else? Date of death is interesting too - as according to the official history 15 Bty MMG had returned to Pershawar from  Subhan Khwar by then!

 

Regards, Paul 

[david murdoch]

34 minutes ago, pjwmacro said:

Thanks David.

I have spoken with David Henshall before via the MGC/OCA fb page on a couple of occasions- not sure if he is on here as well. Philip Hampton appears to have said virtually nothing about his experiences- so there isn't much to go on beyond the records.

Look forward to your write up on Roberts - is he the one shiwn on the medal role as 15 Sqn? Or am I thinking of someone else? Date of death is interesting too - as according to the official history 15 Bty MMG had returned to Pershawar from  Subhan Khwar by then!

 

Regards, Paul 

Yes he's wrongly listed as 15th Sq. His Indian burial record has 15th MMG. Would need war diary to find out what happened to him and exactly where. He was certainly shot and killed outright on 1st then buried in Peshawar on 2nd, so presumably brought back there. The Khyber Pass on the probate may be a red herring. They may have been ambushed when out on the road.

[pjwmacro]

9 hours ago, david murdoch said:

Would need war diary to find out what happened to him and exactly where

Thanks again David.

Sadly so far I have only located a War Diary (for the NWF) for 22 Bty. Nothing for 3, 15 or 19 Btys. Need to check for Bde (and potentially Div) diaries - 44 Bde in this case - but of course non of these are digitised, so not likely to be any tine soon.

[pjwmacro]

On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 22:28, pjwmacro said:

According to the Official History of the Third Afghan War, 15th Motor Machine Gun Battery formed part of the Shabkadr column under command of 44 Inf Bde, which left Peshawar on 21 May, to reinforce the Mohmand blockade ivo Subhan Khwar. They returned back to Peshawar by 30 May as the Afghans withdrew. They also appear to have been part of the operations on 19th July, which located a party of Afridi tribesman on Karawal Hill, 7 1/2 miles west of Bara Fort, but are not mentioned in the actual attack on the hill on 22nd Jul.

 

Can anyone tell me more about these actions? Are they described in George Molesworth's book, "An Account of Operations in the Third Afghan War" - sadly I don't have a copy! Or in Brian Robson's "Crisis on the Frontier" - my copy has been left in storage while on posting!

 

Thanks, Paul

 

Have just put a request in Documents Wants etc - looking for copies of George Molesworth's or Brian Robson's books, 

[david murdoch]

2093 Cpl John Tydwal Roberts.

He was born was born in New Tredegar, Monmouthshire in 1895. His parents Ellis Maelor Roberts b.1865 d, 1903 and  Anne Roberts b. 1865  His father, the Reverend Ellis Maelor Roberts, was the minister in the town’s Welsh Congregational Chapel at that time. His parents married in 1894 and had three sons . The eldest two John Tydwal born 1895, Ellis Glyndwr born 8th March 1899 in New Tredegar.  Due to Congregational ministers requirement to move parishes on a regular basis the family left New Tredegar in 1897 and moved to Llandovery in Camarthenshire and third son, Thomas, was born here in 1900.

On the 1901 Census the family were living in Noyadd, Llanfair ar y Bryn, Llandovery, Camarthenshire. At this time the sons are noted as only speaking Welsh whereas the parents were bilingual.

In 1903 their father died aged only 37. At the same time his wife was expecting a fourth child. He was born 4th June 1903 and named William Maelor Roberts.

Annie Roberts by 1911 Census had moved back to Dyserth where she was originally from. On the census she was living with John (aged 15) and Willie the youngest aged 7. There is no record of John’s or his mother’s occupations at this time. The other two sons are not listed on the same census return – possibly living with other relatives or fostered.

When WW1 started John enlisted in the Motor Machine Gun Service - he travelled to Coventry and enlisted through The Motorcycle in the first week of August 1915 and he appears in their recruits listing in the 12th August issue. He has two Medal Index Cards. One showing his BWM/VM and also his later GSM. There is a separate one with just a 1915 Star. This shows he went to France on 30th September 1915 and as a corporal. As 15th MMG were already in France by then he must have joined them likely as a casualty replacement. He served in France and then went with the Battery to India. He was Killed in action 1st June 1919 aged 23. The circumstances of his death are unclear without a war diary to reference. His probate notes place of death as Khyber Pass, but this may just be a generalisation of the area. His Indian burial record shows he was buried in Peshawar the following day -  2nd of June 1919 and cause of death as a gunshot wound to the head, so it would appear he was killed outright  - possibly in a confrontation with hostiles or perhaps an unlucky  sniper victim of a tribesman.  The most likely area of his death is somewhere along what is now the N5 running from Peshawar up to the pass at Landi Kotal on the Indian side of the border. He must have been brought back to Peshawar fairly quickly by his comrades. There are no other British casualties noted on that day being buried in Pashawar – there are several Indian casualties on that day all commemorated on Deli Memorial but no details where they may have fallen. He was buried at Peshawar Left British Cemetery Plot 8 grave 444. This cemetery could not be maintained by CWGC and so he is now commemorated on the Deli Memorial. Both his original burial report and Indian burial record list him as being M.M.G.S! His CWGC memorial page lists him erroneously as being 15^th Sqdn and date of death as 2^nd June 1919

His was not married and his soldiers effects of £102,15s,1d went to his mother. His probate dated 29th June 1920 left a further £137,15s,1d to his mother. His mother also claimed a dependants pension.

He is remembered on Dyserth war memorial and also on a plaque inside the Horeb Chapel (United Reformed Church), High Street, Dyserth which commemorates two members of the congregation who fell in WW1. He is also noted on the New Tredegar war memorial page as having been originally from the town but not on the actual war memorial.

What became of his family is difficult to establish. Due to common name have not identified when his mother died or where, but two of the brothers Ellis Glyndwr Roberts died 21^st May 1977 in Wrexham, Wales and the youngest William Maelor Roberts died 5^th September 1965 in Wrexham, Wales. Indications are he never married.

[GWF1967]

Unnamed M.M.G.S. Coy, Armistice parade, Peshawar. 1918. 

Trucks of 692 Coy. A.S.C. Khyber Pass.

 

[david murdoch]

Interesting photos. Any more background to them? Certainly the MMG battery parading is taken same time and place as the armoured cars. However the armoured cars look like 1914 pattern/1920 chassis type (by the wheels and mud guards) so would date them later than 1918. There were just a few (Rolls Royce) armoured cars on the North West Frontier  - those photos so far identified being there in 1919 during 3rd Afghan War were original 1914 pattern but with NAP tyres fitted on solid bolted wheels.  At the same time the presence of the MMG battery would date no later early 1920 as all MMG batteries disbanded and the personnel shipped home then.

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, david murdoch said:

Interesting photos. Any more background to them? Certainly the MMG battery parading is taken same time and place as the armoured cars. However the armoured cars look like 1914 pattern/1920 chassis type (by the wheels and mud guards) so would date them later than 1918. There were just a few (Rolls Royce) armoured cars on the North West Frontier  - those photos so far identified being there in 1919 during 3rd Afghan War were original 1914 pattern but with NAP tyres fitted on solid bolted wheels.  At the same time the presence of the MMG battery would date no later early 1920 as all MMG batteries disbanded and the personnel shipped home then.

Hi David,

 The photographs are part of a collection showing military and civilian subjects in and around Peshawar. There are clear dates and notations for most of the pictures which all relate to "Horace" of 692 Coy. A.S.C.

The parade photographs show MMG vehicles, Royal Artillery, Infantry , and Native Cavalry,  are all subtitled "Armistice Parade, Peshawar, 11 November 1918".

 Unit badges featured in some photographs seem to confirm the date.

(Badge designed  by  Pte. A/Cpl. A/CQMS. DM2/155311. Edwin James Langford  and  Pte. M2/167723 - Reginald Brinsley Chaffey). 

Edited 16 September , 2020 by GWF1967

[david murdoch]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Hi David,

 The photographs are part of a collection showing military and civilian subjects in and around Peshawar. There are clear dates and notations for most of the pictures which all relate to "Horace" of 692 Coy. A.S.C.

The parade photographs show MMG vehicles, Royal Artillery, Infantry , and Native Cavalry,  are all subtitled "Armistice Parade, Peshawar, 11 November 1918".

 Unit badges featured in some photographs seem to confirm the date.

 

Thanks  for the confirmation of the date/location. I have an interest in the armoured cars as well as the MMG units. I'll endeavour to pin down which unit those armoured car belong too.  I'd say the most likely candidates for the MMG Battery is 22nd or 15th to be in that area in November 1918.  3rd,14th and 19th were also in India, but in other locations. Carving unit badges into rocks seems to have been quite a common practice going further back - certainly some of these still survive today.

[pjwmacro]

9 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

 The photographs are part of a collection showing military and civilian subjects in and around Peshawar. There are clear dates and notations for most of the pictures which all relate to "Horace" of 692 Coy. A.S.C.

 

 

Great photos, thank you for sharing

 

Regards, Paul

[pjwmacro]

7 hours ago, david murdoch said:

I'd say the most likely candidates for the MMG Battery is 22nd or 15th to be in that area in November 1918

 

I`d agree - with a leaning towards 15 MMG as actually being stationed in Peshawar, when 22 MMG were in Rawalpindi. My grandfather (who was 22 MMG), however, was in Egypt undergoing flying training in Nov 1918, so I`m afraid none of his letters are any help in this case.

 

Regards, Paul

[pjwmacro]

On 15/09/2020 at 21:44, david murdoch said:

2093 Cpl John Tydwal Roberts.

He was born was born in New Tredegar, Monmouthshire in 1895. His parents Ellis Maelor Roberts b.1865 d, 1903 and  Anne Roberts b. 1865  His father, the Reverend Ellis Maelor Roberts, was the minister in the town’s Welsh Congregational Chapel at that time. His parents married in 1894 and had three sons . The eldest two John Tydwal born 1895,

Great research David, thanks for sharing.

 

Regards Paul

[david murdoch]

34 minutes ago, pjwmacro said:

 

I`d agree - with a leaning towards 15 MMG as actually being stationed in Peshawar, when 22 MMG were in Rawalpindi. My grandfather (who was 22 MMG), however, was in Egypt undergoing flying training in Nov 1918, so I`m afraid none of his letters are any help in this case.

 

Regards, Paul

Paul. I'd say most likely 15th MMG as they were actually based there certainly in late 1918. There are 15th MMG casualties  October, November and December  died and buried in Peshawar.

[mcassell]

I am amazed I missed this thread! Attached is a photograph of Lieutenant Philip Jeffries who died at Peshawar 3 December 1918 with 15 MMG Battery. His cause of death is listed as kidney failure but I believe he accidentally poisoned himself with 'ground glass'. Ground glass is a corruption of grain d'eglise , the French word for the Indian Rosary Pea plant. The seeds of this plant contain a highly toxic chemical (abrin) and has been used in India for surreptitiously killing cattle and in homicides (cf. Captain FC Briggs, General Rex Dyer's adjutant). Abrin causes intestinal perforations, peritonitis and eventually kidney failure. Significantly, Jeffries, a Catholic, has a rosary listed amongst his personal effects.

In addition to his medals, I have a letter - on 15 MMG letterhead - from him to his parish priest a few days before his death (also attached). It expresses his ardent desire to leave India as soon as possible, which he never did.

[mcassell]

I also have the British War Medal and Bronze Memorial Plaque to John Tydwal Roberts of 15 MMG Battery. Unfortunately, I have no additional information as to the circumstances leading to his death other than that already posted. His India General Service Medal with 'Afghanistan-NWF 1919'' clasp has also survived and is in a private collection.

Of note, I have identical copies of the two pictures of the parade with MMGs and armoured cars. These are in a photograph album compiled by Gunner P. Skinner of HQ 1st Armoured Motor Battery, which operated RR armoured cars out of Peshawar. The armoured car picture is annotated 'On parade Peshawar' and the motorcycle picture is annotated 'No. 15 MG Battery'.

[pjwmacro]

7 hours ago, mcassell said:

photograph of Lieutenant Philip Jeffrie

Many thanks for sharing the photo and details of Lieut. Jeffries. And confirming our view of the motorcycle photo being 15 MMG Bty.

 

Regards Paul 

[GWF1967]

8 hours ago, mcassell said:

I also have the British War Medal and Bronze Memorial Plaque to John Tydwal Roberts of 15 MMG Battery. Unfortunately, I have no additional information as to the circumstances leading to his death other than that already posted. His India General Service Medal with 'Afghanistan-NWF 1919'' clasp has also survived and is in a private collection.

Of note, I have identical copies of the two pictures of the parade with MMGs and armoured cars. These are in a photograph album compiled by Gunner P. Skinner of HQ 1st Armoured Motor Battery, which operated RR armoured cars out of Peshawar. The armoured car picture is annotated 'On parade Peshawar' and the motorcycle picture is annotated 'No. 15 MG Battery'.

I’m very glad you found the thread, better late than never.
Many thanks for confirmation of the Armoured Motor and MG Batteries. 

[pjwmacro]

Can anyone identify the name of this officer who appears to have served with 15 Bty during the Third Afghan War:  Jass, Parr, Larr?  Grateful for any assistance.

 

Regards, Paul

[pjwmacro]

On 05/01/2022 at 15:27, mcassell said:

I am amazed I missed this thread!

Glad you have found it (and the 19 Bty one) now. The attached thread contains links to the threads I have started on all the MMGS Batteries which served in India (3, 14, 15, 19 and 22). Longer term project is to do threads for the Armoured Motor Batteries - but not just yet.

Regards, Paul

 

[PRC]

The MiC for Lieutenant Arthur Parr would appear to tie up with those details.

Image courtesy Ancestry.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[pjwmacro]

27 minutes ago, PRC said:

The MiC for Lieutenant Arthur Parr would appear to tie up with those details

That's our man - many thanks. Paul

[david murdoch]

On 05/01/2022 at 11:27, mcassell said:

I am amazed I missed this thread! Attached is a photograph of Lieutenant Philip Jeffries who died at Peshawar 3 December 1918 with 15 MMG Battery. His cause of death is listed as kidney failure but I believe he accidentally poisoned himself with 'ground glass'. Ground glass is a corruption of grain d'eglise , the French word for the Indian Rosary Pea plant. The seeds of this plant contain a highly toxic chemical (abrin) and has been used in India for surreptitiously killing cattle and in homicides (cf. Captain FC Briggs, General Rex Dyer's adjutant). Abrin causes intestinal perforations, peritonitis and eventually kidney failure. Significantly, Jeffries, a Catholic, has a rosary listed amongst his personal effects.

In addition to his medals, I have a letter - on 15 MMG letterhead - from him to his parish priest a few days before his death (also attached). It expresses his ardent desire to leave India as soon as possible, which he never did.

 

 

Word of his death got back to UK fairly quickly - presumably by telex as he is noted in the Birmingham Post  of 13th December 1918. It states that he died in Peshawar military hospital after and operation - which suggests peritonitis. I don't have his Indian death/burial record  - though the other casualties were fairly easy to find, and it states cause of death. Can you elaborate on your belief that he was accidentally poisoned?