26th Heavy Battery, RGA

[HTSCF Fareham]

A number of men that I have been researching were in the 26th Heavy Battery. I've managed to obtain the War Diary for August 1914 to August 1915 from TNA, which has helped no end with most of them. The problem now is that I have Bombardier 19849 Archibald Edward Morris, who was KiA on 24/04/1917. Could someone please advise where I would locate the relevant War Diary, as I am trying to establish where and how he lost his life. He is buried at Achiet-Le-Grand Communal Cemetery Extension.

 

Thanks!

[ororkep]

The WD for 23 Brigade RGA which 26 HB was a component battery within the higher formation group from 06.02.1917 (free at the moment if you register) will tell you all.

NA Ref: WO95/469/2

Rgds Paul

[Langdon]

From a previous thread (rflory): History of the 77th Brigade, RGA, France 1916-19 pages 52 to 56 contains a three-page history of 26th Heavy Battery, RGA and a list of casualties and honours up to 1 January 1918.

 

Mike

[HTSCF Fareham]

8 hours ago, ororkep said:

The WD for 23 Brigade RGA which 26 HB was a component battery within the higher formation group from 06.02.1917 (free at the moment if you register) will tell you all.

NA Ref: WO95/469/2

Rgds Paul

Many thanks, information located.

Killed by shellfire at Beugny.

[ororkep]

You will find precise position coordinates, and their (26 HB) counter battery tasks and more besides, in 1ANZAC WD ref: AWM4-13-7-13. Again freely available to download.

The problem with the 77 Bde account is that it is taken from recollections of  surviving battery members, the actual records having been lost through enemy action. And while better than nothing they are not 100% accurate. The shelling on the 24th is not mentioned.

 

P

[WhiteStarLine]

43 minutes ago, ororkep said:

You will find precise position coordinates, and their (26 HB) counter battery tasks and more besides, in 1ANZAC WD ref: AWM4-13-7-13

Paul's reference says that they were at I.11.c.70.26 on April 19th 1917 and puts the battery on the reverse slope of the ridge NE of Beugny where they stayed until 26 April when they moved a 1,000 metres SE.  While no map sheet is cited in the op orders or unit war diary (that I spotted) I have assumed map 57c as it covers Noreuil, Bullecourt and Écoust-Saint-Mein.

[HTSCF Fareham]

Thanks, WhiteStarLine, this is an excellent visualisation of the area as described by the positional coordinates. Whilst I understand the latitude, I cannot see where the longitude of 70.26 is arrived at.

[WhiteStarLine]

Just now, HTSCF Fareham said:

I cannot see where the longitude of 70.26 is arrived at

Hi, the modern longitude is actually 2.929423.  The 1918 position in the unit war diary is given in WW1 co-ordinates and these are not latitude, longitude pairs but positions marked on an imperial grid square superimposed over a metric Belgian map.  So the battery commander would read reference I.11.c.70.26 as:

1. Open Sheet 57c (implied in the operation order);
2. Find the letter 'I';
3. Find the number 11 within the region denoted 'I';
4. Find the bottom LHS of the sub-square c;
5. Within that 500 yard sub-square, move from the left 70 hundredths along the x axis;
6. From that point move up 26 / 100.

That's the easy part!  We are now around 100,000 metres east and 30,000 south of a reference point near Charleroi.  We convert that position to a modern WGS84 latitude and longitude using a transformation from an obscure coordinate reference system called Bonne Projection.

 

To check our work, let us take the modern town of Beugny and lookup its official position using French Government Data.

• We convert 50.12096,2.93474 to 57c.I.16.c.4.1 with a forward conversion.  I.16.c is in the main street of Beugny and 1,443 metres SW of your battery position.
• To complete the roundtrip, we convert 57c.I.16.c.4.1 back to 50.120928, 2.93498.  Noting that the battery reference is 2 significant figures and Beugny is 1, so this is as expected.
• If we can confidently find Beugny, we can be sure that your battery was where we think it is.

This position is well within the WW1 grid reference tolerance.  A brilliant piece of work on this from a forum member is Great War maps - expected accuracy.

 

Beugny ca. 113 m

P PPL populated place

France ^FR » Hauts-de-France ³² » Pas-de-Calais ⁶² » Arras ⁶²¹ » Beugny ⁶²¹²²

population : 317

50.12096, 2.93474

 

 

[WhiteStarLine]

To finalise this post, the CWGC gives Bdr. Morris original burial location as

.

If we convert 57c.I.22.a.2.7 to 50.119268, 2.933751, how close do we get?  Anywhere in the red square is correct for a single figure x and y ordinate.  Église Saint-Gery looks to be at 22.a.1.7 so in 1917 the gunners were perhaps first buried in the field to the right of the church?

 

[HTSCF Fareham]

11 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Hi, the modern longitude is actually 2.929423.  The 1918 position in the unit war diary is given in WW1 co-ordinates and these are not latitude, longitude pairs but positions marked on an imperial grid square superimposed over a metric Belgian map.  So the battery commander would read reference I.11.c.70.26 as:

1. Open Sheet 57c (implied in the operation order);
2. Find the letter 'I';
3. Find the number 11 within the region denoted 'I';
4. Find the bottom LHS of the sub-square c;
5. Within that 500 yard sub-square, move from the left 70 hundredths along the x axis;
6. From that point move up 26 / 100.

That's the easy part!  We are now around 100,000 metres east and 30,000 south of a reference point near Charleroi.  We convert that position to a modern WGS84 latitude and longitude using a transformation from an obscure coordinate reference system called Bonne Projection.

 

To check our work, let us take the modern town of Beugny and lookup its official position using French Government Data.

• We convert 50.12096,2.93474 to 57c.I.16.c.4.1 with a forward conversion.  I.16.c is in the main street of Beugny and 1,443 metres SW of your battery position.
• To complete the roundtrip, we convert 57c.I.16.c.4.1 back to 50.120928, 2.93498.  Noting that the battery reference is 2 significant figures and Beugny is 1, so this is as expected.
• If we can confidently find Beugny, we can be sure that your battery was where we think it is.

This position is well within the WW1 grid reference tolerance.  A brilliant piece of work on this from a forum member is Great War maps - expected accuracy.

 

Beugny ca. 113 m

P PPL populated place

France ^FR » Hauts-de-France ³² » Pas-de-Calais ⁶² » Arras ⁶²¹ » Beugny ⁶²¹²²

population : 317

50.12096, 2.93474

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I understand the "easy part". Looking up on Wikipedia the Bonne Projection has completely blown my mind apart and is way above my math knowledge set!

 

I've also looked at the link you provided. This highlights some very interesting points regarding the various reprinting of maps through the war years, tracing from existing ones, misalignment, and the list goes on....

 

 

[HTSCF Fareham]

8 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

To finalise this post, the CWGC gives Bdr. Morris original burial location as

.

If we convert 57c.I.22.a.2.7 to 50.119268, 2.933751, how close do we get?  Anywhere in the red square is correct for a single figure x and y ordinate.  Église Saint-Gery looks to be at 22.a.1.7 so in 1917 the gunners were perhaps first buried in the field to the right of the church?

 

Thank you! The system proven again.

[Andrew Cockburn]

Hi, I'm also trying to track down information on the 26th (and 35th) Heavy Battery RGA with a view to following a relative's (Grandad's Uncle!) war time movements once restrictions are lifted and to hopefully gather more information regarding his MM and DCM (other than what is in the Gazettes).

 

There are some mix ups in the National Archives with his service number and unit but am fairly sure that he joined the 26th Heavies in East London and died as a Sgt with the 35th Battery in July 1918 having been awarded a DCM and MM. His name is William John Bridges 29486.

 

The National Archives state he served with 21 Battery which is clearly a mistake from his Medal Card ...supported by the fact that all of this batch of numbers appear to be allocated to 26 Battery at the period. They also mix his service number as 29496 and 24988. All understandable, but leads you in the wrong direction to start with.

 

The questions someone may be help to help with are ...

(1) 26 and 35 Heavy Batteries were clearly a Fareham based Regular unit....why would volunteers from East London be allocated to them?

(2) As the batteries moved to France quite early on in the War how quickly would their new volunteers have joined them?

(3) Is it normal to move between the batteries?

(4) Can anyway provide scanned copies of the relevant pages from the 77th Brigade History Book on the 26th as I can't seem to source a copy?

(5) He died on 20 July 1918 and is buried Louvencourt Cemetery. Assuming he is buried near where he was killed, does anyone know what action may have resulted in his death at this time.

(6) I have a "hand me down photo" of my relative in C Sub Section 26th Heavy with a 60 pounder, as "ARLARM Company winners" (?!?)...should I post it somewhere for anyone else who is interested? If so, where?

(7) Any other photos of the Batteries from this period available to see if I can spot him?

 

It would be nice to gather all the facts for future generations ... especially my son, who is is a keen Cadet and hoping to join.

 

Many thanks

 

Andy Cockburn

 

 

 

 

 

[HTSCF Fareham]

From the Fareham War Memorial I have the following soldiers who were attached to the 26th RGA, but were not Fareham people:-

 

2nd Lieutenant Frank William Barber - Enlisted Ipswich (29/01/1908), but resided at Fort Nelson, Fareham.

Sergeant 12094 Arthur Ernest Bark - Enlisted New Cross, Greater London (13/10/1902), but married and lived at Fareham.

Acting Bombardier 13731 William John Brine - Enlisted Parkhurst, Isle of Wight (02/01/1903), fiance lived Fareham and he was based at Fort Wallington, Fareham.

Gunner 38891 Charles Edwin Darby - Enlisted Great Yarmouth, Norfolk (11/02/1913) - No connection to Fareham that I have found.

Bombardier 19849 Archibald Edward Morris - Enlisted Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, but lived with his wife at Fareham.

 

Not a specific answer to your query, Andy, as I'll have to bow to other forum pals far superior knowledge.

[HTSCF Fareham]

I'd think this topic would be an ideal place to post the photo.

[Andrew Cockburn]

 

Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. He has 3 medal cards …. the campaign one indicating 26 HB and DCM/MM cards showing 35 Heavy. Easy to see how the National Archives mixed up 26 with 21 but I confirmed it by checking which units this range of numbers went to. If you look up numbers around 29486 they are all associated with East Ender's in 26 Heavy RGA

 

 

Edited 26 May , 2020 by Andrew Cockburn

[HTSCF Fareham]

Here's a copy of the 77th Brigade War Diary (courtesy of the NA) entry for the date you mentioned.

 

 

Edited 26 May , 2020 by HTSCF Fareham

[HTSCF Fareham]

Courtesy of Fold3...

 

 

[Andrew Cockburn]

That's great … where did you find it?

Brilliant pieces of information … thank guys!

[Andrew Cockburn]

Are there any records remaining for the 35 Heavy Battery for that day …. can't find any myself?

[Andrew Cockburn]

Here's a picture of C Sub Section in case someone cant spot a relative …. mine is bottom right.

[HTSCF Fareham]

I like the photo! Wouldn't it be great to identify everybody!!

Edited 27 May , 2020 by HTSCF Fareham

[Andrew Cockburn]

Thanks for the link but it seems to be the Siege rather than Heavy Battery

[Andrew Cockburn]

Another 26 Heavy pic … I always thought this was taken back in East London where he was from but I've just noticed (with a magnifying glass!) that the post office stamp says Fareham. Looks like some of the Battery out on the lash in down town Fareham! My Great Uncle is at the back with his tunic open. I'm beginning to think he was a Regular and hadn't just signed up at the start of the war as I've always presumed.

 

 

[HTSCF Fareham]

8 hours ago, Andrew Cockburn said:

Thanks for the link but it seems to be the Siege rather than Heavy Battery

Oops, a bit of an oversight. According to my research, the 35th were relieved by the 26th on 13/09/1914. I'm not sure where to suggest from then.

 

I have just stumbled on this link though.... https://www.victorianforts.co.uk/heavybrigade.htm

[HTSCF Fareham]

Can someone please point me in the right direction for the War Diary for 35th Heavy Battery, RGA for July 1918?

 

Thanks!