Machine Gunner Badge?

[bobster1]

Hi All,

Trying to identify the trade badge on lower left sleeve. I know regiments had machine gun sections before the Machine Gun Corps was founded in October 1915.This chap was kia in April 1915.Is it a machine gun badge? Any help appreciated.

[mancpal]

I somehow don't see machine guns but then again can't offer a credible alternative. By the way, who is he? A bit of research may well uncover his specialisation as well as other stuff.

 

Simon

Edited 20 April , 2020 by mancpal

[FROGSMILE]

Trumpeters badge I think. 

[bobster1]

7 hours ago, mancpal said:

I somehow don't see machine guns but then again can't offer a credible alternative. By the way, who is he? A bit of research may well uncover his specialisation as well as other stuff.

 

Simon

9726 Sgt Patrick Bennett Royal Irish Regiment.Military research done for him and posted here. https://www.facebook.com/groups/963675410382519/

[bobster1]

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Trumpeters badge I think. 

 A possibility alright but still not sure

[FROGSMILE]

There isn’t any other badge whose silhouette and features match.  It’s an unusual badge for a line infantry soldier, but not wholly unprecedented.  None of its apparent make up matches with other crossed device badges, such as rifles, flags, artillery guns, whips, etc.  It’s one of the very few badges seen worn both ways up.

Edited 20 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Dragoon]

1 hour ago, bobster1 said:

 A possibility alright but still not sure

100% agree with FROGSMILE, there is no other badge it could be.

 

Chris

[TullochArd]

Frogsmile's cracked it.  Trumpeters badge and here's a period one 1900-1920.  In this image the bell of the trumpet is khaki and would virtually blend into the background khaki of the jacket as in the photo.  Now why would a Sergeant in the Royal Irish Regiment be wearing that?

 

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, TullochArd said:

 

Now why would a Sergeant in the Royal Irish Regiment bewearing that?

It was sometimes worn by rifle volunteers because of the early rifle regiments adoption of light dragoon/hussar dress.  

The Irish regiments did not have volunteer battalions, as there was no volunteer movement in Ireland due to a fear of the widespread access to arms that that would promote, and there were instead a greater number of militia regiments whose arms were centrally stored in well fortified centralised barracks.
A large number of the Irish militia regiments affected a rifles or light infantry style and followed the dress idiosyncrasies accordingly.  I imagine that that might perhaps be the source of the badge in this case. The North Tipperary Light Infantry Militia were one of three units affiliated with the Royal Irish Regiment that became Special and Extra Reserve battalions.

Edited 21 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

Nobody has commented on the position of this badge: it is where a skill-at-arms badge would be.

Trumpeter [and bugler and drummer] badges marked appointment, and belonged upper right.

I too can think of no other ID, so this goes down as very unusual indeed.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

Nobody has commented on the position of this badge: it is where a skill-at-arms badge would be.

Trumpeter [and bugler and drummer] badges marked appointment, and belonged upper right.

I too can think of no other ID, so this goes down as very unusual indeed.

 

 

The logic he seems to have followed is perhaps that of a SNCO with signallers flags who’s not employed as the signals sergeant and so wearing the badge on left lower arm 

[TullochArd]

Intriguing.  I've re-visited bobsters enlargement and the clarity of the trumpet bell in comparison with the cloth versions is now suggesting to me that we are maybe looking at a brass version.  Furthermore could it be backed in some way - perhaps coloured felt giving it that chunkier look?

 

As a side story - there's a very readable story on Patrick Bennet's IWM Lives page about the mobilisation of 2 RIR at this time at https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/304268

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

Intriguing.  I've re-visited bobsters enlargement and the clarity of the trumpet bell in comparison with the cloth versions is now suggesting to me that we are maybe looking at a brass version.  Furthermore could it be backed in some way - perhaps coloured felt giving it that chunkier look?

 

As a side story - there's a very readable story on Patrick Bennet's IWM Lives page about the mobilisation of 2 RIR at this time at https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/304268

I think it’s certainly a well padded version, but overall it has the drab and matte appearance that I associate with a cloth badge.  Metallic badges always seem to me to have crisper edges and a more defined form even in a poor quality image.  I’d also considered bullion wire, but on balance I personally don’t thinks it’s either of those, although I entirely respect that it’s entirely natural that your eyes might well discern things differently to mine. 

Edited 21 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE