5th Dragoon Guards, 5th Battalion

[Anorak]

hi crawshay wrote a diary up to the 29 0f october 1914 its on a welsh museaum webb site really intresting and is name is on a memorial in aldershot ive paid my respects their a few times thanks ever so much for your import anorak john

[Swinesheadvillage]

2 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

Fascinating. One would assume that had these remains been found in more recent times, attempts would have been made to locate relatives of the unknown o.r.

Hi Stephen

 

Apologies for my misleading post above:

 

Here's a link to the headstone report. Originally it was meant to commemorate Crayshaw and two soldiers, that was then reduced to one, presumably because of a lack of evidence for unit designation

 

It gets even more fascinating. Originally in 1970, when the remains were found, they were buried as two unknown soldiers of the 5th Dragoon Guards, Known unto God. This changed 23 years later when the effects of Mervyn Crayshaw were identified and the gravestone was changed in 1993 to reflect his name, unit and one Known unto God. 

 

Source :- Glamorgan Archives

 

I know little about DNA tracing, but the little I know tells me it wasn't around then. Somebody, I don't know who (maybe a member of CWGC records section), must have done a 'cold case' review and identified him.  I wonder if this is still going on. I hope so.

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

 

 

[HTSCF Fareham]

I certainly hope so, but what a huge undertaking this would be.

[Anorak]

On 25/11/2020 at 15:48, Anorak said:

hi i never gave it a thought your right last year some 23 london rgt soldiers were found i use to go to clapham junction drill hall as a cadet in the 1950 and have a great affection for the 23 london in ww1 and they dad trace some of their relatives anorak john their some really clever people out their all know is my grandad was born in manchester and was killed in oct 1914 he was a hotel porter be fore he was called up has a reserve in 1914 and he was married to my nan edith  they were liveing  in pimlco london my mum was called edith betty walker later tuyce when nan remarried thats all i know about my mum faimly can any body help put bit more knowlegde to 5075 james william waler anorak john

 

On 25/11/2020 at 15:48, Anorak said:

hi i never gave it a thought your right last year some 23 london rgt soldiers were found i use to go to clapham junction drill hall as a cadet in the 1950 and have a great affection for the 23 london in ww1 and they dad trace some of their relatives anorak john their some really clever people out their all know is my grandad was born in manchester and was killed in oct 1914 he was a hotel porter be fore he was called up has a reserve in 1914 and he was married to my nan edith  they were liveing  in pimlco london my mum was called edith betty walker later tuyce when nan remarried thats all i know about my mum faimly can any body help put bit more knowlegde to 5075 james william walker anorak john

 

[Anorak]

On 25/11/2020 at 15:48, Anorak said:

hi i never gave it a thought your right last year some 23 london rgt soldiers were found i use to go to clapham junction drill hall as a cadet in the 1950 and have a great affection for the 23 london in ww1 and they dad trace some of their relatives anorak john i did write to peaches faimly through the iow gazette they did publish my letter and a young lady got in touch with me i told them a bout cement house and i belive peach was their the peach faimly on the isle oe wight were a well established fimly sadly they had no photos of peach is medfals were sold but the dad of the lady did fined a war medal in ebay some years back at least the iow gazette published my letter un like the farham paper even my local paper never publish a smith that was killed in 1918 when the germans done their big push pooley was killed then he came up through the ranks hope im not boreing every one anorak john

 

[barney5042]

On 25/11/2020 at 12:30, Anorak said:

hi crawshay wrote a diary up to the 29 0f october 1914 its on a welsh museaum webb site really intresting and is name is on a memorial in aldershot ive paid my respects their a few times thanks ever so much for your import anorak john

Can you please provide a link?

 

Thanks!

 

[Anorak]

On 25/11/2020 at 15:48, Anorak said:

hi i never gave it a thought your right last year some 23 london rgt soldiers were found i use to go to clapham junction drill hall as a cadet in the 1950 and have a great affection for the 23 london in ww1 and they dad trace some of their relatives anorak john

 

5 hours ago, barney5042 said:

Can you please provide a link?

 

Thanks!

 

hi by link you mean tellinformation try these mervyn crawshay glamorgan archivess. and see all the lads on google 5 dragoon guards at messines in 1914 in photos this also shows the panels donated by the old comrades association after the war at a church in aldershot anorak john

[Anorak]

hi by link you mean tellinformation try these mervyn crawshay glamorgan archives  and see all the lads on google 5 dragoon guards at messines in 1914 in photos this also shows the panels donated by the old comrades association after the war at achurch in aldershot .hopes this helps anorak john

[barney5042]

5 hours ago, Anorak said:

hi by link you mean tellinformation try these mervyn crawshay glamorgan archives  and see all the lads on google 5 dragoon guards at messines in 1914 in photos this also shows the panels donated by the old comrades association after the war at achurch in aldershot .hopes this helps anorak john

Thanks!

 

For everyone's reference, here's the link to the diary

 

Mervyn Crawshay diary

 

[Anorak]

hi i have of the last months wrote       letters with all the information to the army museum london .the war graves and last week the dragoon guards museum try to get them to help get the war graves to put the names of paice and peach  on the bottom of the headstone to crawshey at least their faimlys will have some were to go to pay respects anorak john

[HTSCF Fareham]

It would be good if this could happen. Fingers crossed!

[Anorak]

IT WOULD BE MARVELLOUSE AFTER RESEARCHING THE THE 5 DRAGOON SINCE 1977   MANLY            THE 31 OCT 1914 IT WOULD MAKE IT ALL WORTH WHILE I PRESNTED A PLAQUE TO THE MESSINES MUSEUM IN 2014 BE FORE THEY ALTERD IT WITH ALL THE NAMES ON IT .IT WAS LOST WHEN THEY GOT MONEY TO MODERNISE THE MUSEUM I WAS NOT PLEASED BUT THATS HOW IT GOES ANORAK JOHN

[barney5042]

On 27/05/2021 at 10:59, Anorak said:

IT WOULD BE MARVELLOUSE AFTER RESEARCHING THE THE 5 DRAGOON SINCE 1977   MANLY            THE 31 OCT 1914 IT WOULD MAKE IT ALL WORTH WHILE I PRESNTED A PLAQUE TO THE MESSINES MUSEUM IN 2014 BE FORE THEY ALTERD IT WITH ALL THE NAMES ON IT .IT WAS LOST WHEN THEY GOT MONEY TO MODERNISE THE MUSEUM I WAS NOT PLEASED BUT THATS HOW IT GOES ANORAK JOHN

 If you don't mind me asking, any particular reason 31 October 1914?  And just the 5th Dragoon Guards or all units for that day?  Thanks!

[Anorak]

hi barney  sat urday the 31 0ct 1914 iws the day my grandad james william walker at messines who was in the 5 dragoon guards was killed at the barracade with the machine gun which black a officer put in a exsposed position he was wounded earlier on and crawshay took over but couldent move the gun germans in the end brouth up a artillary gun and blasted it away so the 31 0ct 1914 very close to my heart i never knew aboutgrandad on my mums side till 1977 and i still dont know much about him only he was born in manchester called up in 1914 were he was living in london pimlico mum was a year old when he went to france i have been following is and is foot steps since anorak john

[Anorak]

hi barney  what made you ask that think i am wasting my time i am a anorak john

[barney5042]

On 09/07/2021 at 11:20, Anorak said:

hi barney  what made you ask that think i am wasting my time i am a anorak john

I collect medals to the 5th Dragoon Guards, particularly interested in WW1.  For example, my avatar is to a lieutenant who received the Military Cross while servicing with the regiment at Harbonnieres.

I am curious why anyone else is interested in the regiment, particularly for WW1.

[Anorak]

hi barney whats yhe chaps name dont leave me in suspenders john

[barney5042]

On 11/07/2021 at 05:24, Anorak said:

hi barney whats the chaps name dont leave me in suspenders john

Lieut E.O.E. Peel

Also have an MC group to Major H.J.C. Rostron.

Also a DSO, MC group to Major E.S.D. Martin.

[Anorak]

hi barney thanks for your reply what a group of medals to have if only they could talk  thanks again take care anorak john

[Anorak]

hi barney been reading the write up on officers in 5 dg regimental book your lads certainly won their medals i bet your really proud to have them you done really well getting them all the best anorak john

[barney5042]

21 hours ago, Anorak said:

hi barney been reading the write up on officers in 5 dg regimental book your lads certainly won their medals i bet your really proud to have them you done really well getting them all the best anorak john

Thanks!  I have citations for each soldier:

Martin:

"For the efficient handling of his machine guns on 13th May 1915. Though exposed to heavy shell fire, he kept his guns in action throughout and when the Regiment retired from their trenches he remained in position and covered the retirement."

Peel:

"For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty on August 8th 1918. When the Squadron had to dismount under heavy machine gun fire and hold an advanced trench this officer, with utter disregard for danger, rallied scattered parties of men and brought them under heavy fire into their positions. Afterwards he went out at great personal risk in front of our lines and brought in 6 prisoners single handed. He displayed absolute fearlessness throughout and inspired the men with confidence."

Rostron:

"For conspicuous ability and devotion to duty. This Officer joined the Regiment in November 1914 with which he served continuously until November 1915 when he was transferred to the Infantry at his own request, and was appointed 2nd in command of a Battalion, which post he held until severely wounded some months later. On his recovery he was retransferred to the 5th Dragoon Guards and rejoined the Regiment in France in May 1917. During his service with the Regiment and particularly during the last three months he has been tireless in the performance of his duties and has always shown a fine example to others in different situations."

Martin had a long and distinguished career, becoming a brigadier in WW2.

Peel was publicly disgraced in 1922 for attempting to cheat on a horse race bet.  His trial was extensively covered by The Times and he served a year in prison.  His wife left him and he died in the 1930s while still a relatively young man, with his only son killed in action in WW2.

Rostron's story is even more tragic.  He had a mental breakdown in the trenches while serving away from the 5DG.  He was a newlywed but his wife died while he was in France.  Then his health declined quickly and he died a few years after the war.

I wrote articles on all three.

[Anorak]

hi barney thats brillant what you found out makes the groups come alive and names rememberd thanks for your reply  john

[Anorak]

hi i have a e mail from the war graves commission saying  their is not enought  evidance to prove paice and peach are buried with crawshay  its sad they dismissed my  findings as only the three of them  died on the way to the ccs of the germans on 31 october 1914 anorak john

[HTSCF Fareham]

That's a shame. I'm guessing that as they cannot be 100% certain, then there is therefore enough doubt. I suppose it could be possible that the remains might be that of another fallen colleague from another regiment.

[Anorak]

hi on the first report they said two other soldiers then they reduced to one but the other soldier was 5 dragoon man other wise wouldet be on headstone in my heart i know they are with crawshay anorak john