5th Dragoon Guards, 5th Battalion

[HTSCF Fareham]

I wonder if anyone could help me with the location of the 5th Dragoon Guards on 31/10/1914?

 

I am trying to trace the death of Corporal 5475 Henry Paice who was KiA (no known grave) on that day and is commemorated on the Menin Gate.

 

Would anyone please be able to help me with an exact location, cause or the war diary for that time period?

 

Thanks!

[BFBSM]

The war diary pages for 30 October

Edited 18 April , 2020 by BFBSM
images inserted out of order.

[HTSCF Fareham]

Thanks! Wow, this is a very detailed account, but unless I'm missing something, I can find no clues as to exactly where this action took place.

[JamesCl]

Here is a link to the memoirs of Daniel Casey, who served in the 5DG. Could be something in there that is useful.

[HTSCF Fareham]

Alas, Daniel Casey didn't join the BEF until after the DoD of my chap.

[Vlaamse Verhalen]

This should help

 

Definitely one of the more descriptive & detailed WDs

[HTSCF Fareham]

Many thanks! This puts everything into context. As you say, the diary and the map are very detailed.

[Anorak]

hi your relative paice is buried in cement house cemetary he was wounded and taken prisoner with carroll a bands who would have been giveing first aid cpl peach  dcm help lead a charge to retake trench lost by indian troops who were shelled out of their position .captain crawshay who was wounded by the barracades were my grandad jw walker was killed along with many more 5 dragoons was also taken prisoner all three were to die on the way to a german ccs near a newly form german air base . caroll was later to die the christmas 1914 in a  german hospital. crawshay paice peach were buried near to one another because crawshay was a boer war soldier he had metal id dog tags so was so was able to be reconzied a trooper is buried with crawshay and the other trooper is close by in a un marked grave at least you know paice is buried in cement house cemetay  anorak john

[HTSCF Fareham]

This is really interesting, thanks. Where did you source this material from?

 

I'm trying to extract the detail out of the information that you have provided.

 

If I'm reading it correctly, all those you mentioned were part of 'A' company and died after being wounded in action, taken prisoner and died on the way to a German CCS. Do you happen to know any more detail about the CCS?

 

Was Cpl Paice buried in an unmarked grave, or is there a marker for him alongside Crawshay and Peach?

[Anorak]

hi cpl paice is buried in cement house cemetary with another two 5 dragoon guards a cpl peach and captain crawshay who has a headstone they were taken prisoner and die on the way to a german first aid post a bands carroll who was with them later died in a german  prisoner of war hospital that christmas 1914 anorak john

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi

 

In a request for information from the family to the IRC they indicated he served with 1st Troop C Squadron. That may help place him using the excellent war diaries above. 

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

 

[HTSCF Fareham]

11 hours ago, Anorak said:

hi cpl paice is buried in cement house cemetary with another two 5 dragoon guards a cpl peach and captain crawshay who has a headstone they were taken prisoner and die on the way to a german first aid post a bands carroll who was with them later died in a german  prisoner of war hospital that christmas 1914 anorak john

 

I've found reference to Captain Crawshay here and the DoD etc ties in nicely, but nothing for the other two that you mention. According to the Cement House Cemetery records, all the memorials have been recorded and accounted for.

[HTSCF Fareham]

18 hours ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi

 

In a request for information from the family to the IRC they indicated he served with 1st Troop C Squadron. That may help place him using the excellent war diaries above. 

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

 

Thanks for this, Derek!

[Anorak]

hi im new to computors  and bad at spelling so please for give me .peach dcm won at nery in 1914 led a charge to take the trenches lost by the indian troops they wee shelled out of their postion peach and paice were wounded along with bands man caroll who would be a medic in war time he died in germany at christmas 1914. they were picked up wounded and were be ing taken to a german first aid post some 20 miles away near a german air field being set up and died on the way crawshay was a boer war soldier and would have metal dog tags not the fibre ones issued later on .they were buried to gether crawshay is buried with a 5 dragoon guards trooper near crawshay their is a un marked grave which i belive is paice or peach crawshay was wounded at the barracade with the machine gun of the 5 dgs which is were my grandad 5075 jw walker was also killed the germans manhandeld a artiilary gun and blasted it to smitherings a bit further up a indian cpl and is machine gun were doing good service till the gun was shot to bites he won a vc medal for is work the gun at the barrack with crawshey wasent put thier by him but a captain black when  crawshay see out was sighted he new it was in the open but was to late to move it captain black was wounded at the gun and later recoverd and joined the royal flying corps and was killed in egypt . ive been tracing my grandads foot steps since 1977 the old comteptible church in aldershot has all the names on oak panels iv tried to visit but not been very succesful the panels were donated by th 5dgs old comrades  anorak john

[Anorak]

hi if you go to google 5 dragoon guards at messines 31 october 1914 in photos their a lot on the 5dg and photos of the panels anorak john

[HTSCF Fareham]

49 minutes ago, Anorak said:

hi im new to computors  and bad at spelling so please for give me .peach dcm won at nery in 1914 led a charge to take the trenches lost by the indian troops they wee shelled out of their postion peach and paice were wounded along with bands man caroll who would be a medic in war time he died in germany at christmas 1914. they were picked up wounded and were be ing taken to a german first aid post some 20 miles away near a german air field being set up and died on the way crawshay was a boer war soldier and would have metal dog tags not the fibre ones issued later on .they were buried to gether crawshay is buried with a 5 dragoon guards trooper near crawshay their is a un marked grave which i belive is paice or peach crawshay was wounded at the barracade with the machine gun of the 5 dgs which is were my grandad 5075 jw walker was also killed the germans manhandeld a artiilary gun and blasted it to smitherings a bit further up a indian cpl and is machine gun were doing good service till the gun was shot to bites he won a vc medal for is work the gun at the barrack with crawshey wasent put thier by him but a captain black when  crawshay see out was sighted he new it was in the open but was to late to move it captain black was wounded at the gun and later recoverd and joined the royal flying corps and was killed in egypt . ive been tracing my grandads foot steps since 1977 the old comteptible church in aldershot has all the names on oak panels iv tried to visit but not been very succesful the panels were donated by th 5dgs old comrades  anorak john

Thanks for typing up all this detail. It makes for a very interesting read. I'd still be interested to know its source.

 

So there is a chance that an unmarked grave could be either Paice or Peach. I'm guessing that we'll never know for certain, so hence why no grave marker in the Cement House Cemetery.

[Anorak]

hi i have been their many times the war graves commission want 110 proof before the commit them selves i know in my heart they are their i visited messines many times and presenteda plaque to the little museaum with all the names of the 5dgs killed that day  when i was at kew in the 1980s with a chap called davied cripps who was a medal collector i told him about my grandad and he was more educated than than me and new how to start the research when i opend the war dairy at kew it still had mud on the page .i must had say the museaum at messines were more intrested in 1917 because the new zealand and canadan goverments were puttin money in a new museaum their i sent a lot of paper work to the farham paper hopeing they would hand it on to paices faimly they didnt. i sent my faimly up the wall over the years i have a a4 folder full of informatiom i know the 5dg museaum will stick on a shelf and for get about it i woluld like to go to some that would appreciate it when grandad was killed my mum was a year old poor nan coudent handle it and hit the bottle mumm had a terrible child hood nan commited suicide in the 19502s that war was still effecting people then  anorak john

[Anorak]

hi if you google 5 dragoon guards other ranks 1914 pow you will see how lads names crawshay not their being a officer  anorak john

[HTSCF Fareham]

23 hours ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi

 

In a request for information from the family to the IRC they indicated he served with 1st Troop C Squadron. That may help place him using the excellent war diaries above. 

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

 

 

23 minutes ago, Anorak said:

hi if you google 5 dragoon guards other ranks 1914 pow you will see how lads names crawshay not their being a officer  anorak john

 

Got it! I followed the link on Find My Past for POWs and I arrived at the document posted by Swinesheadvillage.

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi

 

My apologies, I should have forwarded you the link to save you time. You may be interested in the following link to Capt Crawshay's CWGC concentration report. 

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/4009555/MERVYN CRAWSHAY/#&gid=2&pid=1

 

Hope this helps 

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

[Anorak]

hi i never seen that thats brillant just got fined how to print it off you have made my day at 74 i fill like haveing a skip around anorak john

[Steven Broomfield]

1 hour ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi

 

My apologies, I should have forwarded you the link to save you time. You may be interested in the following link to Capt Crawshay's CWGC concentration report. 

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/4009555/MERVYN CRAWSHAY/#&gid=2&pid=1

 

Hope this helps 

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek

 

Fascinating. One would assume that had these remains been found in more recent times, attempts would have been made to locate relatives of the unknown o.r.

[HTSCF Fareham]

28 minutes ago, Anorak said:

hi i never seen that thats brillant just got fined how to print it off you have made my day at 74 i fill like haveing a skip around anorak john

I'll second that!

 

Interesting that you can just about see on the bottom of the grave photo the mention of an "unknown soldier". The identity of Crawshay was easy due to the pips, but exactly who was the other person? Was it my chap Corporal Paice or Corporal Peach?

[Anorak]

hi i never gave it a thought your right last year some 23 london rgt soldiers were found i use to go to clapham junction drill hall as a cadet in the 1950 and have a great affection for the 23 london in ww1 and they dad trace some of their relatives anorak john

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi

 

Here's a link to the headstone report. Originally it was meant to commemorate Crayshaw and two soldiers, that was then reduced to one, presumably because of a lack of evidence for unit designation.

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/4009555/MERVYN CRAWSHAY/#&gid=3&pid=1

 

Kind Regards

 

Derek