The John Wylie Collection (new thread)

[Skipman]

Bridge game at Carlingnose, 1913. F Cadwick, Dublin, the soldier without Glengarry. I think probably Chadwick but not certain).
 
Mike

Edited 18 June , 2020 by Skipman

[dhubthaigh]

8 hours ago, dhubthaigh said:

 

Mike, this is fantastic stuff. I'm having a look at this photo but struggling with a few names/places. In the 'standing' is that William Neat, Kinloch, Dunkeld? What is in brackets after Charles Stewart, Dunkeld - bugler? Is it Robert Buchan, Birnam? In the 'seated' is is J. Bisset, Perth ? and 'lying' Robert ?, Dunkeld ?

 

8 hours ago, dhubthaigh said:

 

Mike, this is fantastic stuff. I'm having a look at this photo but struggling with a few names/places. In the 'standing' is that William Neat, Kinloch, Dunkeld? What is in brackets after Charles Stewart, Dunkeld - bugler? Is it Robert Buchan, Birnam? In the 'seated' is is J. Bisset, Perth ? and 'lying' Robert ?, Dunkeld ?

 

23 hours ago, Skipman said:

Richard, my colleague has sent this scan taken at 1200 dpi, not sure if it's much better or if that translates to 1200 dpi on the Forum. Let me know if you want me to email it to an address or whether this is ok. If I can at some point physically get the original, I will scan at 2400 dpi.

 

Edited 6.46 a.m. 18/6/2020 added reverse of image which gives names of the soldiers present at the garden party.

 

Mike

 

Questions have been thrown up with several names. Charles Stewart, Dunkeld will be 2131 but work is required to identify who he was. There is no William Neal or Robert Buchan in my nominal roll so further research is also required here. The only Bissetts I have are the brothers Robert & William from Perth. The others are as follows:

 

2186 - Robert Wallace, East Haugh, Pitlochry.  (Won the MM and Bar. Brother of Peter who was KIA 20/11/1917). 

1418 - Murdoch A. Robertson, Glen House, Pitlochry. 

1279 - Eric Bardley, Birnam Institute.

1044 - Stewart Addison, Beechwood, Ballinluig.

1940 - John M. Smith, Murthly (KIA 13/11/1916).

1424 - Robert Anderson, Spittalfield. (Won the MM and Bar).

1883 - Angus Macdonald, Cherrybank, Pitlochry. (His brother Norman was killed on 13/06/1915).

2058 - James Laing, Newfarm, Errol

2099 - Charles Grant Jamieson, Hall Cottage, Caputh (KIA 13/11/1916).

1939 - William Urquhart, Murthly. (Urquhart was from Muir of Ord but was working in this district at the outbreak of war).

1890 - Peter McIntyre. Listed in a RoH for Pitlochry. (In a casualty list his/family resided place listed as Tyndrum).

2137 - John W. Dalgity, Tighnabruich Cottage, Pitlochry.

1423 - Francis Fitzgerald, Torwood, Birnam. (Lost two brothers, Edward 25/03/1918 and Thomas 01/09/1918).

1760 - John McQueen, Dunkeld Gardens.

2031 - Alexander Macpherson, Waterloo, Bankfoot.

2096 - William W. Grant, Kirkton, Old Rattray.

2057 - George Howie, Dunkeld Rd., Bankfoot. (Won the MM and Bar).

2041 - Robert White, Dunkeld Gardens. (DOW 28/11/1916).

2034 - Archie Menzies, Dull. (Won the DCM, MM and Bar, C de G.).

1891 - Peter Wallace, East Haugh, Pitlochry. (KIA 20/11/1917. Brother of Robert 2186).

 

Edit: Not Robert Buchan, Birnam it's Robert Crichton 1618. Robert actually enlisted when he was at Blairgowrie where his father, a policeman, had been posted from Birnam.
 

 

Edited 18 June , 2020 by dhubthaigh

[dhubthaigh]

29 minutes ago, Skipman said:

Bridge game at Carlingnose, 1913. F Cadwick, Dublin, the soldier without Glengarry. I think probably Chadwick but not certain).
 
Mike

 

Mike, that's Fred Chadwick. A Lancashire lad but working as a second division clerk with the Board of Works in Dublin before the war.

[dhubthaigh]

1 hour ago, Skipman said:

Here you go Derek. I posted this earlier post 65, and have since found a list of names associated. Billets at Bedford Again it is given as "1914" but obviously it was 1915.

 

Mike

 

Mike, can we get a complete picture of the names? Some of those on the right look to bet cut off. Cheers

[Skipman]

Sorry dhubthaigh, attached hopefully these better.

 

Just wondering if it's possible that some of them didn't actually go to France with the first batch, for various reasons?

 

Mike

[dhubthaigh]

16 hours ago, Skipman said:

Here you go Derek. I posted this earlier post 65, and have since found a list of names associated. Billets at Bedford Again it is given as "1914" but obviously it was 1915.

 

Mike

 

 

A number of men featured in the garden party are also in this photograph. Those not previously mentioned are:

 

1837 - John Muirhead. His father was a wine merchant of George Street, Edinburgh. However, after his father's death John made his home with an aunt in Cupar, Fife.

1253 - Thomas Richardson, High STreet, Dunkeld. (KIA 13/11/1916).

1422 - William Robertson, Larchwood, Auldclune (KIA 30/07/1916).

1982 - James Menzies, Nether Kincairney, Murthly. (Won the MM).

1283 - William Scott, Strathview, Moulin.

1049 - Norman Macdonald, Cherrybamk, Pitlochry. (KIA 13/06/1915).

** J A STEWART, Perth (Further enquiry required to identify this man).

1615 - Norman Niicholson, Railway Cottages, Calvine. (KIA 21/03/1918).

1783 - Thomas M Brand. A Perth man but was working as an estate agent in Truro, Cornwall when war broke out.

 

** The name William Neat, Dunkeld appears again, and he is a mystery. I have a small newspaper article fom 9th June, 1915 which states "Cockney Bill (the nickname of an Englishman in the 6th) had the fright of his life yesterday. A German 'swish-bang' burst about three yards away from him". There was no-one in the nominal roll who matched and I wonder if this refers to Neat. No sign of him in MIC's...he is hiding.
 

[Skipman]

One of the pre-war camps 'Sports Day' (year unknown)

 

Mike

[dhubthaigh]

Officers from post #86 named:

 

 

[dhubthaigh]

Two officers missing from the photograph who went out with the 6th Black Watch on 2nd May, 1915 - W P Campbell, and A Innes:

 

 

Edited 20 June , 2020 by dhubthaigh

[Skipman]

Excellent dhubthaigh, well done that's really useful.

 

Mike

[dhubthaigh]

It took me a while Mike... but worth it.

[dhubthaigh]

Robert Drummond Moncreiffe
Charles Carlyle MacDowell
John Wylie
William Alexander
James Craig
Lewis Gibson
John Hally - KIA 30/07/1916
Alexander Innes
James Macrosty
Samuel Harvey Marshall
George Douglas Pullar
David Brown Calder
William Philpot Campbell
William Ernest Coutts - KIA 22/03/1918
Robert Bruce Ellis - DOW 21/11/1916
Robert Patrick Haldane - DOW 13/06/1915
Charles Michael Vere MacDowell - DOW 28/04/1917
Ronald Grant Macnaughton
Algernon Henry Pascoe West
John Norman Wilson - DOW 04/07/1917
William Parker Wrathall
Walter James Baynham
Robert George Alexander Dickson
Norman Ferguson Dixon - DOW 05/10/1917
Alfred Ferdinand Hill
Robert Lynn
Albert Benjamin Sadler
James Bonner Smith
William Purcell Stewart
Richard Lowry West
Benjamin Sadler
William Haig
 

................and "DASH" the dog.

Edited 20 June , 2020 by dhubthaigh

[Derek Black]

Good job on the names, it really makes a difference to a photo.

 

Derek.

[rgalley]

On 17/06/2020 at 18:34, Skipman said:

Richard, my colleague has sent this scan taken at 1200 dpi, not sure if it's much better or if that translates to 1200 dpi on the Forum. Let me know if you want me to email it to an address or whether this is ok. If I can at some point physically get the original, I will scan at 2400 dpi.

 

Edited 6.46 a.m. 18/6/2020 added reverse of image which gives names of the soldiers present at the garden party.

 

Mike

Thanks Mike ... great to have the names of the men, hopefully we may be able to name at least a couple of the ladies as well. I've sent you a message about the size of the image.

[rgalley]

On 17/06/2020 at 19:35, Skipman said:

Another taken at Bedford April. 1915

 

Mike

Mike,

The location for this photo was the Bedford Physical Training College's playing fields off Sidney Road, Bedford. The University of Bedfordshire's Alexander Sports Centre now stands on the site. Then, as now, the western boundary of the area is delineated by the Midland Railway mainline which serves Bedford (running into St. Pancras station, London and northwards to Derby). In the photo, the telegraph pole and wooden fencing mark the line of the railway.

 

Directly across the railway line are the playing fields which used to belong to Bedford High School for Girls, now Bedford Girls' School. Some of the 5th Gordons were under canvas on the High School's fields for the first couple of weeks after their arrival in Town in August 1914 and the two-storey pavilion served as the Officers' Mess. In the far distance can be seen the rear of properties on Beverley Crescent where many Black Watch men were billeted on the households (I was born and brought up at 5 Beverley Crescent - although long after the Highlanders had departed!).

 

The attached map marks the location of the photo in relation to others that you've posted. I've also outlined an area with a dotted blue line which indicates the location of HM King George's review of the Highland Division in Oct 1914. This area has been developed for housing in the last couple of years (the area now known as King's Field) and the eagle-eyed will notice the very appropriate choice of street names! There will be further development in the future, so maybe we'll also see the Gordons and Royal Highlanders (albeit that the Black Watch weren't involved in the Royal review) represented.

 

Here's a screen shot taken from Google Streetview which offers a near comparison to the original, although Wylie's photo was taken a couple of hundred metres, or so, north of where Google's image was captured in Chesterton Mews, off Sidney Street - formerly the site of a printing works (Sidney Press):

 

I hope this is of interest.

 

Very best,

 

Richard

Edited 21 June , 2020 by rgalley

[rgalley]

On 17/06/2020 at 19:37, Skipman said:

Officers at Bedford, April, 1915

 

Mike

Mike,

 

Seemingly not much to go on in terms of pinning down the location here, but I'm 99.99% certain it is the Bedford Physical Training College's playing fields just off Sidney Road. The same location as in #86 but taken looking north, rather than south. I also suggest that it was taken the same afternoon as that photo. Unfortunately, there isn't a useful comparison view of 'then' and 'now' because of the tree planting that's taken place in the area which masks the view of the higher ground seen in the distance in this photo, being a distinctive feature in this part of Bedford.

 

I like the small detail of the officer holding the horse's tail (perhaps threatening to tug it!) much to the amusement of the men and officers who can see what's going on!

 

All best,

 

Richard

 

[Skipman]

11 minutes ago, rgalley said:

 

I like the small detail of the officer holding the horse's tail (perhaps threatening to tug it!) much to the amusement of the men and officers who can see what's going on!

 

Richard

 

 

Thanks Richard, I wondered what they were laughing at, great stuff. email sent, let me know if you require higher res.

 

Mike

[dhubthaigh]

Innes and Campbell, who do not feature in the line up (post 67), feature in the group photo (post 86).

[Skipman]

All the details are on the reverse of this photograph. Titled "Blairgowrie"

 

Mike

[dhubthaigh]

I had a look at this given there 'may' be a Blairgowrie connection.

 

It is plausible McGuire could be John McGuire Pvt. 1023/265047, 6th Black Watch, Ashgrove Rattray.

Discharged through wounds 6th June, 1917. Enlisted 2nd February, 1909.

 

There is a L/Cpl. David Stewart, 6th Black Watch, on the Blairgowrie & Rattray War Memorial. He was 4027/266505 and said to have enlisted around August, 1915 which would take him out of the "pre-war" period.

 

I'm not sure if one of the names is "Kerr" or could be "Keir". There was a Donald Keir, No. 1860, 6th Black Watch, who resided at Ericht Lodge, Rattray.

 

As for the others.............................

[Skipman]

Correct dhubthaigh John McGuire, Silver War Badge 192,306 enlisted 2/2/1909, discharged 6/6/1917

 

Mike

Edited 8 July , 2020 by Skipman

[dhubthaigh]

Ah... brilliant Mike, thank you. John went out some time after 1915.....I wonder why....A pre-war Territorial I'd have thought he would have been an "original"..........

 

His name was certainly in the Blairgowrie & Rattray RoH early in 1915.....

[dhubthaigh]

I've had another look and Wylie is David Smith Wylie, an Auchterarder lad. He was No. 265266 then 220302 Camerons.

 

Attached is his entry from the Auchterarder RoH.

 

He died in Stirling in 1964 so whoever wrote the card did so more than fifty years after the picture was taken.......

 

 

 

 

[dhubthaigh]

Just noticed that the card states taken in Aberdeen but has Burntisland on the bottom. More likely to have been Fife?............

[dhubthaigh]

Could Kerr be your 'grizzly bear' man from Aberfeldy. No. 1534 suggests a spring of 1914 enlistment. He appears in a casualty list of December, 1918....?