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The John Wylie Collection (new thread)


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Privates McTeal Bain and Kay I think 1915, possibly Festubert?

 

Mike

John Wylie Forum post 50.jpg

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On 19/05/2020 at 20:06, Skipman said:

Another taken at Bedford, April 1915.

 

Mike

John Wylie Forum post 47.jpg

Mike, Another excellent image and thanks for sharing it. It was taken in the grounds of Bedford Physical Training College, located in Lansdowne Road. The houses in the background are those in Warwick Avenue which appear in posts #65 & #68. I've contacted my friends at Bedford Physical Education Old Students Association Archive and they have sent me the attached image, from a collection of photos taken during WW1: 1365432300_BPTCstudents191418forum.jpg.6b1cf2802e8d847e87b1c39b48a26ff0.jpg

Photo courtesy Bedford Physical Education Old Students Association Archive (via Stephanie Daniels and Anita Tedder)

 

In her excellent book, ‘Bedford Physical Training College During World Wars One and Two’, Steph Daniels refers to a speech given in 1953 by Freda Young, one of the first students at the College, who talked about its founder Margaret Stansfeld:

'Her energy and thoughtfulness made conditions less hard for the soldiers billeted in Bedford; but for the Highlanders in the Medical Room she was a veritable mother, and they knew it and loved her. One day Miss Stansfeld learnt that no attention had been paid to the complaint by boys in the Medical Room that their tea was undrinkable as it was greasy. She said she would look into it; she did, and found lumps of grease floating on the tea: "Go and pour that stuff down the drain, I will send out an urn of tea." The astonished Corporal could only reply. "Madam, I cannot without orders." "I am giving orders". The Colonel who soon appeared became a firm friend and an improvement in tea followed.'

One wonders if the tea urn in Wylie's photo is the same one referred to by Freda Young!

 

I've been asked by Anita Tedder if it would be possible to obtain a higher resolution copy of Wylie's image as she would like to use facial recognition software to see if she can identify the ladies in it.

 

Very best,

 

Richard

Edited by rgalley
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Hi Richard. Many thanks for another excellent reply. Been busy lately and will add more photographs soon. I will ask my colleagues if it is possible to obtain a higher resolution copy. Would 2400 dpi enough if possible? (Might take some time but will see what I can do).

 

Mike

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dhubthaigh
On 21/04/2020 at 20:48, Skipman said:

Lieutenant and QM Cowan, July 1915 (Not certain of this name/rank)

 

Mike

John Wylie Forum post 36.jpg

 

 

This is William McCowan.

 

He was born at Huntingtower Mill, Tibbermore in November, 1870 and married Ellen Duff at St. John's Place, Perth in 1892.

 

He was one of the best shots in the old 4th V.B.R.H and was connected with the Territorial movement since its inception.

 

He worked as a seedsman and was also the proprietor of the Red Lion Inn, High Street, Perth.

 

His home was at Kamarhatty, Lynedoch Road, Scone.

 

The Evening Telegraph of 28th July, 1915 stated "Quartermaster-Sergeant William M'Cowan, of the 6th Black Watch, has been gazetted quartermaster, with the honorary rank of lieutenant.."

 

After the war he emigrated to Canada with his family and took a post with the Canadian National Railway.

 

William died in Winnipeg aged 84 and is buried in Brookside Cemetery.

 

One of the "Originals".

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23 hours ago, Skipman said:

Hi Richard. Many thanks for another excellent reply. Been busy lately and will add more photographs soon. I will ask my colleagues if it is possible to obtain a higher resolution copy. Would 2400 dpi enough if possible? (Might take some time but will see what I can do).

 

Mike

Mike, it's a great pleasure to be able to set some context around some of these these excellent images. I'm sure that 2400dpi would be enough (I'm not techie, so I'd just say, the higher res as possible the better!). The ladies at BPEOSA archive were very excited to see the photo and are keen to identify the ladies who appear in it, so thank you.

Richard

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37 minutes ago, rgalley said:

Mike, it's a great pleasure to be able to set some context around some of these these excellent images. I'm sure that 2400dpi would be enough (I'm not techie, so I'd just say, the higher res as possible the better!). The ladies at BPEOSA archive were very excited to see the photo and are keen to identify the ladies who appear in it, so thank you.

Richard

 

Thank you Richard, will get back to you as soon as I can. Would be good to identify ladies after all these years.

 

Thanks also to dhubthaigh for excellent information.

 

Mike

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dhubthaigh
On 17/04/2020 at 12:17, Skipman said:

Dean, Newel, Fraser, Majury and Willis at Festubert, June, 1915.

 

The men in this photograph are Irishmen, of No1 platoon, A Company. Two of them were killed on a night patrol on the 10th of June, 1915. L/Cpl 1765 Walter Newel  and L/Cpl 2551 

James Denning Willis, both Belfast


"Interesting particulars of an attack on the part of the 6th Black Watch patrol are furnished by Major John Wyllie, Perth, Commanding the Perthshire Regiment in France in the temporary absence of col Sir R D Moncrieffe, Bart., who will return to the front early next month. Major Wyllie's details are supplied to the father of Lance-Corporals W Newal, who was severely wounded in the attack, and passed away before he could be brought down to the dressing-station. On the night in question Lance-Corporals Newal was in sole charge of a patrol sent out to gain information about the movements of the enemy. His patrol, says the letter, was ambushed by a party of about a dozen Germans, and the two foremost were hit. The remining two, Jenkins and Majury-continued to fire on the enemy, and eventually crawled back for help. Lance-Corporals Fraser, your boys particular chum, immediately gt together a party of volunteers, including Lance-Corporals Crone, Private Deane, Piper MacDonald, and, guided by Majury, went out in search of their comrades. They again encountered a hostile patrol, which they dispersed with rapid fire, and although they were under machine-gun fire for about half an hour, they succeeded in locating their two friends-no easy matter among the long corn and barbed wire-and had them carried in to our lines, a very commendable piece of work. The Doctor informs me that both were so badly hit that they must have been unconscious from the first, and it is some little consolation to you to know that your son at least was spared suffering. Both were brought down to the dressing station about midnight, and your son was buried during the night by his comrades beside the graves of some other soldiers. I read a short service myself at the graveside, and the spot is being carefully marked with a cross. I can scarcely tell you how keenly this loss is felt both by officers and men who knew your son. He was always keen on scouting, and has done much good service since coming out here that he was marked by our late CO, Sit Robert Moncrieffe, and by our Adjutant with a view to his rapid promotion. Please accept this expression of the sincerest sympathy of officers and men. Lance-Corporals Newel belonged to Belfast, but was for some time stationed in the Tayport district, and was well known in Tayport and Wormit, where he had gained many friends."

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?lastName=Newel&serviceNumber=1765&war=1

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?lastName=Willis&serviceNumber=2551&war=1

 

Mike

John Wylie Forum post 15.jpg

 

 

2121 - Andrew Majury was born in Belfast in 1888. Before the war he worked in the City Chamberlain's Department. He went out with the Sixth and was subsequently transferred to the R.A.M.C. He was discharged on 21/01/1919 with S.W.B. Returning home from the war he married Martie Willson in 1921 and died in his native city in 1957.

 

1412 - William Fraser was born in Edinburgh in 1891 but grew up in Belfast where his father had established a building business. Before the war he was employed as an office clerk. He went out with the Sixth and in August 1915 was commissioned in the 1st Black Watch. He died of wounds on the 29th of September, 1915.

 

2092 - Frederick W. Deane (D.F.C., C. de G., MiD) was born in Ballyhackmore, County Down in 1896. Before the war he was a student at the Royal Academical Institution, Belfast. He went out with the Sixth, was commissioned in the Royal Irish Rifles in November, 1915 and  joined the R.A.F. in 1918. On the 25th April, 1921 he was killed in a flying accident when his plane crashed into the sea near Aboukir, Egypt.

 

The newspaper article also mentions Frederick Cronne, another Belfast man and Piper Alexander (Alister) Macdonald from Pitlochry.

 

All "originals".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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dhubthaigh
On 19/05/2020 at 20:34, Skipman said:

Privates McTeal Bain and Kay I think 1915, possibly Festubert?

 

Mike

John Wylie Forum post 50.jpg

 

 

I appreciate we cannot be sure when this picture was taken.

 

If it is Festubert, 1915 there are the following possibilities:

 

1601 - Alexander Bain from Dunblane

2426 - John Bain from Almondbank - KIA 22/08/1916

1740 - Alexander Bayne from Auchterarder - DOW 31/07/1916

1286 - Andrew Bayne from Perth and his brother 2372 - John Bayne - KIA 30/07/1916

1802 - John Kaye from Auchterarder - KIA 24/07/1916 and his brother 1678 - Thomas Kaye

10 - John Keay from Perth and his brother 1709 - William Keay - KIA 30/07/1916

 

I have no McTeal listed and there is nothing close to this in the MIC's.

 

Could it be McNeill, McNee or McVea.....?

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, dhubthaigh said:

 

 

I appreciate we cannot be sure when this picture was taken.

 

If it is Festubert, 1915 there are the following possibilities:

 

1601 - Alexander Bain from Dunblane

2426 - John Bain from Almondbank - KIA 22/08/1916

1740 - Alexander Bayne from Auchterarder - DOW 31/07/1916

1286 - Andrew Bayne from Perth and his brother 2372 - John Bayne - KIA 30/07/1916

1802 - John Kaye from Auchterarder - KIA 24/07/1916 and his brother 1678 - Thomas Kaye

10 - John Keay from Perth and his brother 1709 - William Keay - KIA 30/07/1916

 

I have no McTeal listed and there is nothing close to this in the MIC's.

 

Could it be McNeill, McNee or McVea.....?

 

 

 

 

Morning dhubthaigh. These were sent to me by my colleague Tommy, will check these names. McTeal didn't sound right but that's what's on the file. Will get back to you.

 

Mike

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Posted (edited)

Richard, my colleague has sent this scan taken at 1200 dpi, not sure if it's much better or if that translates to 1200 dpi on the Forum. Let me know if you want me to email it to an address or whether this is ok. If I can at some point physically get the original, I will scan at 2400 dpi.

 

Edited 6.46 a.m. 18/6/2020 added reverse of image which gives names of the soldiers present at the garden party.

 

Mike

teapartybedford1915.jpg

John Wylie Forum post 53 .jpg

Edited by Skipman
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dhubthaigh

Mike,

 

Post #86 is the officers at Bedford. Have you names for all these men ?

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4 minutes ago, dhubthaigh said:

Mike,

 

Post #86 is the officers at Bedford. Have you names for all these men ?

 

Am afraid I don't have the names but the officer arrowed is Captain MacRosty of Crieff.

 

Mike

temp McCrosty.PNG

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8 hours ago, dundeesown said:

All these pictures are great Mike.

Gary

 

Cheers Gary. Yes the whole collection is fascinating. Will add a few more shortly.

 

Mike

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dhubthaigh
15 hours ago, Skipman said:

Richard, my colleague has sent this scan taken at 1200 dpi, not sure if it's much better or if that translates to 1200 dpi on the Forum. Let me know if you want me to email it to an address or whether this is ok. If I can at some point physically get the original, I will scan at 2400 dpi.

 

Edited 6.46 a.m. 18/6/2020 added reverse of image which gives names of the soldiers present at the garden party.

 

Mike

teapartybedford1915.jpg

John Wylie Forum post 53 .jpg

 

Mike, this is fantastic stuff. I'm having a look at this photo but struggling with a few names/places. In the 'standing' is that William Neat, Kinloch, Dunkeld? What is in brackets after Charles Stewart, Dunkeld - bugler? Is it Robert Buchan, Birnam? In the 'seated' is is J. Bisset, Perth ? and 'lying' Robert ?, Dunkeld ?

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I would go for Wiliam Neal Kinloch, Dunkeld, In brackets "Maid"  Charles Stewart Bugler J Bisset Robert Wylie

 

Mike

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Pretty sure that will be 265554 Archie Menzies M.M., DCM., a gardener at Dunkeld House. (DCM when in charge of battalion runners)

 

Here's another photograph of J Laing (Carse of Gowrie) from a different (Stott) collection. Taken when home on leave in 1917

 

Mike

John Wylie Forum post 54 J Laing on leave 1917.jpg

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Andrew Upton
18 hours ago, Skipman said:

...Richard, my colleague has sent this scan... added reverse of image which gives names of the soldiers present at the garden party...

 

teapartybedford1915.jpg

 

John Wylie Forum post 53 .jpg

 

 

It's worth noting that the date of the photo given on the reverse as April 1914 cannot possibly be true. All of the Scottish troops are wearing long puttees, boots, and khaki hose, which were only adopted during the war (to replace gaiters, highland shoes and diced hose), and a date of around 1915/1916 is more likely.

 

Edited by Andrew Upton
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It is also worth noting that the name inscriptions, on inspecting closely, must have been written after 1938 when the Bíró was patented and more likely after 1946 when the use of the Bíró became more commercially available. 
The intervening period of years can easily distort the reality of recall, or so they say.

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Andrew Upton, thanks for pointing that out. It is of course April 1915.

 

Knotty, I suppose so. I think it would be fairly accurate written by Wylie himself I reckon.

 

Mike

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Derek Black

Such good quality photos, they really are a pleasure to see.

 

I only wish such a trove of early war photos existed for the 5th.

Ron Marsden on the BW forum states that among his extensive collection of images that the 6th is by far the most represented of the terrier battalions.

 

Keep them coming Mike.

 

Cheers,
Derek.

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Here you go Derek. I posted this earlier post 65, and have since found a list of names associated. Billets at Bedford Again it is given as "1914" but obviously it was 1915.

 

Mike

John Wylie Forum post 55 billets at Bedford main.jpg

John Wylie Forum post 55 billets at Bedford.PNG

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Posted (edited)

L/Cpl George Glass "A" Company, 1/6th Black Watch. Taken at Wormit Huts Oct-1914-May 1915

 

On the 5th of June, 1915,  Lance-Corporal 1619 George Glass, of A company, Black Watch wrote to his uncle at St. Mary's Towers, Birnam (previous to enlistment he was a gardener for Mrs Blair at St. Mary's Tower). " We had it pretty hot in the trenches, from which we have just returned. Out of ten men in my platoon, five of our lads were hit-Private A Matthews and John McQueen, Dunkeld Gardens, the latter being wounded in the arm." On the 14th of July, 1915, the war diary relates "L/Cpl Glass No 1 shot dead when returning with listening patrol." In a letter of sympathy to his parents at Innerwick, Glenlyon, Major John Wylie remarked on his courage and sense of duty, adding " He was interred in a Cemetery behind the trenches the following day, the last rites being performed by the Rev J Donald, of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders." He is buried at Rue-David Military Cemetery, Fleurbaix, Ref. II. G. 6.

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/291629/glass,-george/

 

 

John Wylie Forum post 56 George Glass.PNG

Edited by Skipman
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