Grid Posted 14 April , 2020 Share Posted 14 April , 2020 In his autobiography, Air of Battle, William Fry, has Alan Binnie with 60 Squadron in December 1916 (p. 90 and photograph p. 98+). However, his casualty form at Hendon (https://www.casualtyforms.org) indicates he was not with the squadron until 15 January 1917. Does anyone have other official information to confirm this either way? (Scott's history points to the later date but not conclusive and Warner's history has Jan to April 1917) Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Carson Posted 14 April , 2020 Share Posted 14 April , 2020 Alex Revell is the guy to consult on this (see his Osprey book on 60 Squadron, and of course he knew Willie Fry personally). From my own researches I can say that DV Armstrong flew with C Flight consistently from the squadron's inception until just before Christmas 1916, and he never mentions Binnie. It doesn't prove much because his notes are very sparse. However ... Willie Fry's memoir speaks of C Flight members ".... Eustace Grenfell and, later, Binnie". Alex Revell gives 11 December as the date Eustace Grenfell broke his ankle in a crash, as a result of which he was invalided home and Duke Meintjes was promoted to captain and given command of C Flight ('No 60 Squadron RFC/RAF', Osprey, pp. 27-8). Alex's photo on p. 28 with Binnie is probably the one you've seen, and his fellow pilots in C Flight in this photo don't include Armstrong or Grenfell - if you could determine whether Binnie flew with either of those two pilots in C Flight before they left, then he definitely would have been with 60 Squadron in December 1916. I'll give Alex a head's-up in case he hasn't already seen your enquiry. Best of luck Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 14 April , 2020 Share Posted 14 April , 2020 Annette is correct. The photo on page 28 shows Binnie as a member of C Flight. Willie was absolutely positive that this photo was taken at Savy. 60 Sqdn was there from 1st Sept 1916 until 18 Jan 1917 when the sqdn moved to Filescamp Farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grid Posted 14 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2020 6 hours ago, Annette Carson said: Alex Revell is the guy to consult on this (see his Osprey book on 60 Squadron, and of course he knew Willie Fry personally). From my own researches I can say that DV Armstrong flew with C Flight consistently from the squadron's inception until just before Christmas 1916, and he never mentions Binnie. It doesn't prove much because his notes are very sparse. However ... Willie Fry's memoir speaks of C Flight members ".... Eustace Grenfell and, later, Binnie". Alex Revell gives 11 December as the date Eustace Grenfell broke his ankle in a crash, as a result of which he was invalided home and Duke Meintjes was promoted to captain and given command of C Flight ('No 60 Squadron RFC/RAF', Osprey, pp. 27-8). Alex's photo on p. 28 with Binnie is probably the one you've seen, and his fellow pilots in C Flight in this photo don't include Armstrong or Grenfell - if you could determine whether Binnie flew with either of those two pilots in C Flight before they left, then he definitely would have been with 60 Squadron in December 1916. I'll give Alex a head's-up in case he hasn't already seen your enquiry. Best of luck Annette Hi Annette, Thanks for that. I agree, anything that collaborates the December 1916 date would be useful but my research on Grenfell and Armstrong is only cursory. A brief look through the CITAs does not include a mention to Binnie though I may have missed one and operations over December very low. And of course an absence in the documents I have is no real proof of his absence from C Flight in December 1916. Many thanks, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grid Posted 14 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 April , 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, alex revell said: Annette is correct. The photo on page 28 shows Binnie as a member of C Flight. Willie was absolutely positive that this photo was taken at Savy. 60 Sqdn was there from 1st Sept 1916 until 18 Jan 1917 when the sqdn moved to Filescamp Farm. Hi Alex, Appreciate you answering this for me. I of course have your excellent book on 60 Squadron, a great read! I'm trying to reconstruct members of C Flight until March 1917, so your extensive knowledge very much appreciated. Best, Adam Edited 14 April , 2020 by Grid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josquin Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) Alan Binnie's RFC/RAF service record (AIR 76/39/59 at the National Archives, Kew) lists his postings as: 2 Sept. 1916 Reading 18 Oct. 1916 26 Reserve Squadron 8 Nov. 1916 18 Reserve Squadron 24 Nov. 1916 IRS, Gosport 27 Nov. 1916 Royal Aero Club Pilot Certificate & commissioned Flying Officer 30 Dec. 1916 Vickers Machine Gun Course 2 Jan. 1917 60 Squadron Binnie's Casualty Form differs from his service record, as follows: 3 Jan. 1917 attached to 1 ASD, in the field 15 Jan. 1917 posted to 60 Squadron It is likely that Binnie was flying with 60 Squadron whilst he was attached to 1 ASD, as his service record indicates. Either date, 2 January or 15 January, is prior to the date 60 Squadron changed aerodrome so Binnie could be in a photo taken at Savy, but not in December. Josquin Edited 15 April , 2020 by josquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grid Posted 15 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2020 6 hours ago, josquin said: Alan Binnie's RFC/RAF service record (AIR 76/39/59 at the National Archives, Kew) lists his postings as: 2 Sept. 1916 Reading 18 Oct. 1916 26 Reserve Squadron 8 Nov. 1916 18 Reserve Squadron 24 Nov. 1916 IRS, Gosport 27 Nov. 1916 Royal Aero Club Pilot Certificate & commissioned Flying Officer 30 Dec. 1916 Vickers Machine Gun Course 2 Jan. 1917 60 Squadron Binnie's Casualty Form differs from his service record, as follows: 3 Jan. 1917 attached to 1 ASD, in the field 15 Jan. 1917 posted to 60 Squadron It is likely that Binnie was flying with 60 Squadron whilst he was attached to 1 ASD, as his service record indicates. Either date, 2 January or 15 January, is prior to the date 60 Squadron changed aerodrome so Binnie could be in a photo taken at Savy, but not in December. Josquin Thanks for this. I had just looked at the Air 76 as well and this does tie in pretty well with the Casualty Form. My guess is the WO file would line up with this as well, but it'll have to wait a while to get to the UK to check this out. Once again thanks for the information here, very useful. Really interesting stuff on Binnie's WWI POW experience here. Found it on a previous thread on Binnie. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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