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Remembered Today:

Pte Tom Pickles 10th bn King's Regt MIC interpretation


Sav

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This is the second of a number of photos that my great aunt had in her postcard album again with no inscription. Can anyone identify his regiment?. I note that there is badge on his sporran is that significant?

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Liverpool Scottish.  Good Conduct Stripe and Wounded Badge …… and rather over the top Glengarry tails!  Nice photo.

 

 

Liverpool Scottish.png

Edited by TullochArd
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I agree that it’s a good photo of a young soldier from the Liverpool Scottish.  See: https://www.culture24.org.uk/nw000135

 

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E3382A01-5F65-4923-A2CB-ADFD13B3F967.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Great photo Frogsmile. 

 

This bloke seems to be wearing a diiferent cap badge.  Is it my old eyes or a variation - Liverpool 8 VB?

 

 

E3382A01-5F65-4923-A2CB-ADFD13B3F967.jpeg.5fcac9c2081ccf174d152f0bcb132821[1].jpg

 

 

                  Liverpool 8 VB Badge.png

 

 

Edited by TullochArd
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Thankyou Tulloch Are and Frogsmile. This information has allowed me to confirm the identity of this soldier as 5288 Tom Pickles. He was a very good friend of my grandfather's before my grandfather migrated to Australia in 1929

Regards

Sav

Screen Shot 2020-04-13 at 5.54.01 pm.png

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21 hours ago, TullochArd said:

Great photo Frogsmile. 

 

This bloke seems to be wearing a diiferent cap badge.  Is it my old eyes or a variation?

 

 

 

 

E3382A01-5F65-4923-A2CB-ADFD13B3F967.jpeg.5fcac9c2081ccf174d152f0bcb132821[1].jpg

 
It seems to be a soldier who is still wearing his pre-1908 8th Volunteer Battalion Glengarry badge.  The badge had only been introduced in 1901 and was the only King’s VB glengarry badge without a crown.  The badge is being viewed obliquely from an acute angle and so has a slightly oval appearance but it is definitely the same badge.

 

499E6A2F-DA29-4D4E-8B65-074CA17AD553.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Tom Pickles Regt was kindly identified for me by TullochArd and Frogsmile in another part of this forum from the photo I posted.  I have since located Tom's burnt service record which is, fortunately, largely in tact. He was born in Altham Lancashire but was living in Huncoat when he enlisted in the Liverpool Scottish on 14/4/17 and assigned the No 359796. There are at least three Tom Pickles in the King's Regt: No 5288 and No 358337. Tom sustained a GSW on 24/4/18 and was discharged to the Reserve on 18/10/18. I assume that he would have qualified for the BWM and VM (Mutt& Jeff) but there is no mention of this on his MIC which I have attached below. In the photo he is wearing his wound stripe. Can any interpret the MIC for me and offer an explanation as to the lack of medal entry? Is it simply an oversight or is he linked to one of the other Tom Pickles in the Regt. It doesn't show up in the 16 pages of his service  record. Any help is much appreciated.

Regards

Sav

30850_A001236-01783.jpg

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The above MIC appears to be for another individual as the number and dates don't correspond with his "burnt" service record. The correct MIC ifor No 359796 King's Regt is attached. His papers verify the wound stripe for a GSW sustained 24/4/18.

30850_A001236-01783.jpg

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  • Admin

This looks like a Silver War Badge entitlement card only. Have you looked to see if there is another MIC for him? 

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Hi

The SWB card  above relates to Tom Pickles , 359796, 10th KLR. SWB Badge No from the roll is 496140.  Enlisted 14.4.17 and disch.  14.12.18, 392 (XV1) A , aged 19 yrs, served overseas.......358337 KLR was in the 10th R.W. Kent regt No.10042 previously.......

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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Just FYI, the medal index card indexed under number 5288 is of a man discharged due to wounds in January 1917.

 

Edited by Chris_Baker
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1 minute ago, Chris_Baker said:

He has a medal index card indexed under his number 5288.

Unless he managed to re-enlist then the discharge dates are different - #5288 discharged 31 Jan 1917 as opposed to 14 Dec 1918 (post #3)

 

Craig

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His pension record seems to have 2 sheets relating to 1004 Pickles RW Kent. Same as man in Craig's link?

 

There is another number on the record - 11766 Bly. Bds. Not sure what that means.

 

An entry on B103 says U/arrest SIW. Given the photo shows a wound stripe I'd assume the SIW came to nothing.

TEW

 

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ON FMP is this...sorry being a man and doing two things at the same time so may have missed something above

image.png.76e358ccbb01534bad77ea00b73ba82f.png

 

George

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Thankyou gentlemen for you extensive deliberation and suggestion. I've been through all available MICs on Ancestry and his burnt service record and haven't been able to find a reference to his WW1 pair. One hopes that there is a second MIC out there indicating his entitlement  which may come to light. I know that some soldiers had several MICs. My wife's Uncle Cuthbert Pickett had at least three MICs 

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Attached is another post WW1 photo from my great aunts album of someone who may be of the same regiment given his lapel badge. It may even be Tom Pickles in Mufti. Am I correct with the lapel badge being the King's Regt?

Regards

Ken

img20200413_12340623.jpg

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Photo of him in uniform shows good service stripe for 2 years service plus a wound stripe.

Enlisted April 1917, discharged Dec 1918. Am I missing something here?

 

Shame early part of his B103 is missing, perhaps he was wounded in 1917. Can't see when he arrived in theatre.

 

GSW to Hand L in April 1918 is definitely an SIW although that is standard practise to assume that it would be until proved otherwise.

 

Admitted 141 FA who were at Hesdigneul 36b D.30.d.1.1. Returned to unit 20/6/18. Not seen men returned to front still under arrest before.

 

A week after re-joining unit had NYD, neuritis head and hand L.

 

His pension payments nd description on injury would suggest he was cleared of the SIW so should have the pair.

 

Not seeing him on casualty lists but for April/May/June 1918 I think the lists stop. Photo would have to be late 1918 before discharge but not had 2 years service by then?

 

Yes, 2 incorrect sheets for another man in his record, sheets 9805 & 9806.

TEW

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1 hour ago, Sav said:

Am I correct with the lapel badge being the King's Regt?

Regards

Ken

img20200413_12340623.jpg


I don’t think that it is Tom Pickles (perhaps a young brother or cousin), but yes the lapel badge is the standard regimental cap insignia for the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment. 

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Hi All

Tom Pickles had an injury to his left hand. "GSW left hand incomplete extension of ring & small finger" as per medical record. "The wound entrance was from the palm between the 4th and 5th metacarpal bones of exit on dorsum  between heals of same bones. Scar over drainage wound over 3rd metacarpal bone"....

9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I don’t think that it is Tom Pickles (perhaps a young brother or cousin), but yes the lapel badge is the standard regimental cap insignia for the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment.

His left hand looks to have a large scar on it to me and his small finger is definitely not extended.  No matter how I try I can't bend my small finger to that extent whilst my ring finger stays extended. Try it.

Comments folks!

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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I did think the little finger a bit odd looking but didn't notice the scar.

 

Is there some doubt that the two photos are of the same man?

 

Shame the uniformed photo gets a bit blurry when zooming on the left hand. Surely the scar should be even more evident.

TEW

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4 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Hi All

Tom Pickles had an injury to his left hand. "GSW left hand incomplete extension of ring & small finger" as per medical record. "The wound entrance was from the palm between the 4th and 5th metacarpal bones of exit on dorsum  between heals of same bones. Scar over drainage wound over 3rd metacarpal bone"....

His left hand looks to have a large scar on it to me and his small finger is definitely not extended.  No matter how I try I can't bend my small finger to that extent whilst my ring finger stays extended. Try it.

Comments folks!

Regards Barry


I’ve scrutinised the faces meticulously, Barry, and personally I don’t think that they’re the same person.  Incidentally, but not as a conclusive point, there’s no reason why Tom would wear an ordinary King’s Regt badge anyway, there’s no reason why he could not wear some kind of Liverpool Scottish insignia and those who served with that unit considered themselves a cut above and apart. I don’t think he would have been content to wear ‘someone else’s’ cap badge.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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