The bullet that killed 16 million people

[Amitmis]

Hi,

 

I'm back with one of my weird sets of questions for you experts.

I want to dedicate an episode in my novel about ww1 to the bullet that killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand.

 

I've managed to gather some information, such as that the bullet was a .380 ACP, but here's some information I would much like to know, that I couldn't find online (or could, but was too stupid to understand):

 

1. Which factory manufactured that very bullet? I know it's Colt, but which Colt? Could it be a few that the bullet came from, or is there one? And where was that factory?

2. How much money does it cost to produce one such bullet (please represent the sum in today's dollar's worth)?

3. How long does it take to create a single bullet like that?

4. Is it one machine and one person manning that machine that produced it, or is it a multi-leveled process?

5. What are the steps to making a bullet from absolute scratch (please take into account the means and conditions that were available at the time, not the ones that are available nowadays)?

6. Where did the bullet go to after being produced? Was it immediately packed in a box and delivered to stores? And if so, which store was that particular bullet bought from?

7. How exactly did that kind of bullet work? What happens to it once the trigger is pulled? Or even better, what happens to it from the moment it is loaded from the clip into the barrel and up to the moment it has penetrated skin and bone and came out the other side falling to the floor (and is that what happened with Ferdinand, or did the bullet stay inside him?)?

8. I read that this bullet that killed the archduke is exhibited today in the Konopiste Castle in Czechia. How did it get there? Where did it go, and by whom was it taken (and how long after the shot was fired), from right after it left the archduke's body and up to this very day?

 

In other words, I want to chronicle the journey of this bullet, from before its inception as raw materials in the ground, and up to this moment.

 

 

Any help would be great, any kind of information.

And much appreciated!

Thank you.

Amit.

[Amitmis]

(Really? Nothing?)

[David Filsell]

Could be because no one knows the answers!

[Amitmis]

Yeah, that makes sense, but... where else can I ask? :-(

[assafx]

Amit,

Try this link.

you might find someone in the IAA,  who might know the answer but don't get your hopes high.

 

Assaf

[Moonraker]

Or you could Google "colt revolver users forum archduke". The Colt that was used in the assassination is mentioned several times, with part of your first question being answered several times. And your question eight is answered here.

 

(And that's just from a very casual glance.)

 

You've yet to tell us your hopes for your novel and at what sort of readership it's aimed. It's going to be written in Hebrew, we know, but one wonders if its readers will be interested in quite so much detail as "before its inception as raw material".

[TEW]

There is a theory/legend/myth that the Archduke either had or was offered a silk bullet proof vest.

 

If he did own one and wore it that day AND Princip was a better shot (got a body shot rather than neck) the vest MIGHT have saved the Archduke.

TEW

[MikeyH]

The weapon used was a Browning Model 1910 pistol, not a COLT.

 

Mike.

[Moonraker]

Which made me wonder how effective silk is at stopping bullets. Googling will suggest that it is - and led to

 

this Guardian article

 

Typically a glance at other results suggest varying accounts, including one that the Archduke WAS wearing a silk vest, but this would not have protected his neck.

 

The Guardian article refers to the murder weapon being a Browning, Amit calls it a Colt, and another quick Google reconciles this apparent discrepancy. If members of gun forums are as pedantic as some of us, it might be as well to try to determine what name is acceptable to experts before putting any queries to them.

 

EDIT: See what I mean? Mike posted seconds before I did. Getting the name right is more important than trying to work out which shop the bulllet mgith have been purchased from.

Edited 14 April , 2020 by Moonraker

[Moonraker]

"The Browning FN Model 1910 was a departure for the popular gun manufacturer.  Colt apparently didn’t want to produce it, so Browning made the decision to patent and produce the design only in Europe."

 

Guns website

[RaySearching]

The bullet that killed 16 million people

 

“The Browning FN Model 1910: The gun that killed 8.5 million people”.

From moonrakers link post 10

 

There appears to be a discrepancy in the numbers attributed as having been killed   by the gun and bullet  

[ilkley remembers]

The pistol that Princip used is on display at the rather excellent Heersgeschichtliches Museum in Vienna along with the Archdukes bloodstained uniform and the car in which he was travelling. Not sure where the bullet is but may be at the same museum. 

Edited 14 April , 2020 by ilkley remembers

[Moonraker]

From the Guns website I linked to in point 10: "A member of the Black Hand purchased four FN 1910 pistols in Belgrade, all in .380 caliber, for the plot. Early sources erroneously reported the gun to be a FN Model 1900 in .32 caliber, leading to modern confusion over which caliber was used during the shooting." (Note American spelling of "calibre".)

 

At least we now know where the shop was! And Wikipedia gives the progress of the pistol from its purchase.

 

But no doubt Amit has already checked out this entry?

[Amitmis]

10 hours ago, assafx said:

Amit,

Try this link.

you might find someone in the IAA,  who might know the answer but don't get your hopes high.

 

Assaf

 

I'll check it out right away! Thank you!

 

6 hours ago, Moonraker said:

Or you could Google "colt revolver users forum archduke". The Colt that was used in the assassination is mentioned several times, with part of your first question being answered several times. And your question eight is answered here.

 

(And that's just from a very casual glance.)

 

You've yet to tell us your hopes for your novel and at what sort of readership it's aimed. It's going to be written in Hebrew, we know, but one wonders if its readers will be interested in quite so much detail as "before its inception as raw material".

 

The novel is about a young man coming back from the Great War to his home in Britain where he lives with his mother. It's really about coping with feelings of guilt, shame, anger, post-trauma etc. It is built in a form of plot-intermezzo-plot-intermezzo. While the plot is consistent and chronological, the intermezzi deal with everything peripheral to the main story (there's one about young Hitler and his dog in the trenches (without having disclosed the fact that this boy "Adi" is actually Hitler right up until the end), one about the Christmas truce, one about the rats in the trenches, one about the letters sent home to inform the families of their loved ones having died etc.). It's a fictional novel with (mostly) fictional characters and a made-up narrative, but it's wholey based on what really happened. It is not a history book, but it doesn't fabricate the facts either. Specifically answering the question about the bullet, I thought it might be interesting to dedicate an intermezzo to the bullet that killed Ferdinand, right from having been in the ground in the form of different elements, how it was mined, processed, how a factory worker manufactured it, how it made its way to the store, bought, loaded, shot, killed, collected, stored as evidence and how it's made its way to being presented today at the Konopiste Castle. An intermezzo like that would be about two A4 pages long, I'm not going to get into any excrutiating details that will bore the reader. But I believe I, as the writer, should know more than the reader, in order to do him justice in my writing.

 

5 hours ago, MikeyH said:

The weapon used was a Browning Model 1910 pistol, not a COLT.

 

Mike.

 

I didn't say it was a Colt, I said the bullet was made by Colt. Not the gun.

[Amitmis]

5 hours ago, Moonraker said:

"The Browning FN Model 1910 was a departure for the popular gun manufacturer.  Colt apparently didn’t want to produce it, so Browning made the decision to patent and produce the design only in Europe."

 

Guns website

 

It says here that Princip was hanged. He was not. Makes me doubt the validity of the rest of what's written there. How reliable a source is it, in your opinion?

[David Filsell]

Thre was silk based armour and the Royal Armouries published a fascinating monograph on the subject a year or so ago 

[593jones]

7 hours ago, David Filsell said:

Thre was silk based armour and the Royal Armouries published a fascinating monograph on the subject a year or so ago 

 

There was a documentary shown on BBC, 'Sword, Musket and Machine Gun: Britain's Armed History', presented by Dr. Sam Willis.  The third episode 'Rapid Fire' includes the assassination, with a test by Royal Armouries of silk body armour.  This is available on BBCiPlayer:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b088sznj/sword-musket-machine-gun-britains-armed-history-3-rapid-fire.  The assassination segment begins at 47.00.

[David Filsell]

The assassination segment begins at 47.00.

Who's the target!