Hannah L Posted 11 April , 2020 Share Posted 11 April , 2020 I'm researching a family member who was in WW1. His name was Alfred Richard Hazeldon, 7439, and he was in the 8th Rifle Brigade. On a document I came across it had all his identification info on and these numbers underneath. P.A - 8174 - 3229 - H332 (The H could be a nine) - 9599 - 15232 - 15999 (Or could be 13999, handwriting is very iffy.) Could anyone explain to me what these numbers meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 11 April , 2020 Share Posted 11 April , 2020 This is looking like a POW record. He has one on Grandguerre website or at least there is one to Alfred Hazelden/don 7439 Rifle Brigade. PA 13999 is a reference number on his initial card which leads to this document which says he was captured Ypres July 1915, where he was held and who his NOK was in Brixton, London. The PA 8174 looks like another POW record, possibly from another camp. Not sure about all the other numbers. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 11 April , 2020 Share Posted 11 April , 2020 (edited) They are various PA references from his initial POW card: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1588354/3/2/ PA 3229 https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1588354/698/3229/ List of men at Giessen 11-9-1915, Alfred Hazelden, D Company, Rifle Brigade PA 4332 https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1588354/698/4332/ List of men at Giessen POW camp dated 26-2-1916, Alfred Hazeldine, 8th Rifle Brigade, POW at Ypres (no date stated) PA 8174 https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1588354/698/8174/ Rifleman Alfred Hazeldene, No. 7431, No 4 Company, 8th Rifle Brigade, taken POW at Ypres 8-5-1915, moved from Cellelager to Soltau 15-1-1917, born 23-8-1897 at Brixton, next of kin: Mrs A Hazeldene, 2 Sussex Grove, Brixton, London PA 9599 https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1588354/698/9599/ Rifleman Alfred Hazelden, No. 7430, C Company, 8th Rifle Brigade, taken POW at Ypres 31-7-1915, moved from Soltau to Limburg 1-4-1917, born 23-8-1897 at Brixton, next of kin: Mrs A Hazelden, Sussex Grove, Brixton, London PA 13999 https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1588354/698/13999/ Rifleman Alfred Hazelden, No. 7439, C Company, Rifle Brigade, taken POW at Ypres 31-7-1915, moved from Coln to Limburg 6-8-1917, born 23-8-1895 at Brixton, next of kin: Mrs A Hazelden, Sussex Grove, Brixton, London PA 15232 https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1588354/698/15232/ Rifleman Alfred Hazelden, No. 7439, C Company, 8th Rifle Brigade, taken POW at Ypres 21-7-1915, moved from Limburg to Soltau 11-9-1917, born 23-8-1895 at Brixton, next of kin: Mrs A Hazelden, Sussex Grove, Brixton, London Most of these show movements from one POW camp to another though some of the details vary! Steve. Edited 11 April , 2020 by Stebie9173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Alfred Hazelden, S/7439 was in "C" Company, 8th Rifle Brigade, but not one of the original contingent going overseas on 30/6/15. He was taken POW at Hooge, being in "C" Company which was immediately to the right of the Crater. 13 members of "C" Company became POW's, a majority having been wounded. He appears in Battalion records as Missing, however he does appear in an OR's letters home from another member of "C" Company who was wounded and a POW. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Hello again Andy, I had forgotten that the New Army Rifle Brigade War Diaries had really good casualty lists. For Hannah here is the link to the casualty lists on which he appears: Link to War Diary on Ancestry for 8th Rifle Brigade The date to clarify was 30 July 1915 at Zouave Wood near Hooge - there seems to be rather a lot of confusion on the date in the POW records! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Hi Steve, Good to see you. If Hannah comes back to us I will try and get the families permission to put some of these letters on here. Will drop you a pm as I need a little assistance with a Northants question. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 (edited) Andy, I assume you mean that he wasn't in the original contingent of "C" company going overseas on 30-6-1915 but was with 8th Battalion in another company since his date of entry does say 30-6-1915. As far as I can see his army career would have been: 10-12-1914 Enlisted (date extrapolated from enlistment dates of S/7438 and S/7448, both on same day) 11-12-1914 Posted to a training battalion of the Rifle Brigade (edited - see posts below) 30-06-1915 Embarked to France to join "C" Company of 8th Battalion The Rifle Brigade who were already in France (edited - see posts below). 30-07-1915 At Hooge in Belgium with 8th Battalion The Rifle Brigade when declared Missing and taken prisoner of war by the Germans 11-09-1915 At Giessen POW camp ??-??-19?? Moved to Cellelager POW camp (assumed from next movement) 15-01-1917 Transferred from Cellelager to Soltau POW camp 01-04-1917 Transferred from Soltau to Limburg ??-??-1917 Transferred to Cöln from Limburg (assumed from next movement) 06-08-1917 Transferred from "Fest. Gegefangenlager" Cöln (this may be the Festunglazarett - Fortress Military Hospital at Cöln/Köln/Cologne) to Limburg 11-09-1917 Transferred from Limburg to Soltau ??-01-1919 Repatriation to UK after release from POW camp 03-02-1919 Possible date of demobilisation with eight weeks ex POW demobilisation leave 30-03-1919 Transferred to Class Z Army Reserve 31-03-1920 Class Z Army Reserve disbanded Steve. Edited 13 April , 2020 by Stebie9173 Error correction (see below) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 Steve, Most of the originals were B or Z, the 8th was split up due to oversubscription in Sep 14 forming the 11th, same with the 7th forming 10th and 9th forming 12th. Date of entry for the 14th Div was 19/20th May not June. However as training progressed a few S prefix men were placed in the battalion, mainly coming from the Depot at Winchester, these were in December 14. The letters I have are from an S man very close to Hazelden's number describing just such a pattern as he joined from Winchester, however they all went out with the battalion in May 15. Personal feelings that he was sent out from the 5th, 6th, 14th, 15th or Depot and sent to the 8th. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 13 April , 2020 Share Posted 13 April , 2020 (edited) Thanks Andy. I somehow completely misread the date that the 8th R.B. went out! I will edit my timeline above to remove the error. Steve. Edited 13 April , 2020 by Stebie9173 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah L Posted 15 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) Thank you to everyone who's replied to this thread. If you can get the family's permission that would be wonderful, I have a box full of his stuff that I'm sorting through. He definitely left for France 22/6/1915, as we have that date in his pay book. Also we have a letter addressed to him and his home address about a cancelled meeting dated 13/1/1919 so we know he was back by then. You've all really helped with my project, hope everyone's staying safe. Edited 15 April , 2020 by Hannah L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) Hannah, This is part of a list prepared by this man. This is the third such list I know of concerning the casualties at Hooge, battalion lists, one officers list and this gentleman, all have inaccuracies. This was prepared whilst he was in hospital in Courtrai on the 2nd August after being taken POW. I will check through his letters whilst a POW where your relations name is mentioned again, as well as several others from the battalion. Andy Edited 15 April , 2020 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah L Posted 15 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2020 Thank you for this. I also have his German transfer papers, but the dates are a bit iffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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