Help with Cap badge identification

[James]

Returning to the Forum after a few years.

I am trying to identify what units a soldier served with during the war and  I am stuck with the attached photos. A little bit outside my normal fields of interest.

So if anyone can help it would be appreciated.

I cannot see any cap badges in Doyle and Foster’s book that match 100% and thought it might be a TF version of a regular unit. I think that’s trumpets on his left arm but not sure of the right. Would the dark cord be associated with being a trumpeter?

All help appreciated 

 

[FROGSMILE]

Corps of Royal Engineers Trumpeter.  Note the brass Trumpeter badge on his right upper arm and the cord festooned from his shoulder that was also the mark of Drummers, Trumpeters and Buglers.  Interestingly his cap badge shows the central cypher of King Edward VII that predates WW1.

 

 

 

Edited 6 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Dragoon]

Nice Edwardian cypher RE cap badge

 

Chris

[James]

Thanks, I had thought of Royal Engineers, but not been convinced because the centre looked quite different to the photos I have seen.

 Jack Welsh, served we believe in the Yorkshire Hussars, but family history has him serving overseas and the only MIC I can find is for the Derbyshire Yeomanry.

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, James said:

Thanks, I had thought of Royal Engineers, but not been convinced because the centre looked quite different to the photos I have seen.

 Jack Welsh, served we believe in the Yorkshire Hussars, but family history has him serving overseas and the only MIC I can find is for the Derbyshire Yeomanry.

He appears in the photo to be a Boy Trumpeter, who could enlist with parental permission once reaching the statutory school leaving age, which at that time was 12, although most enlisted at around 13-14.  I suspect he discharged, but then rejoined as a part-time auxiliary soldier in the Yeomanry Cavalry, they would have been happy to enlist a ready trained trumpeter.  He might well then have moved between yeomanry regiments for any of a variety of reasons, including wounding and subsequent recovery. 

Edited 6 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[James]

Sorry Chris our posts crossed.

Thanks, so boy service with the Royal Engineers pre war followed by ww1 service. Attached photo in Yeomanry and one I think in Salonika.

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, James said:

Sorry Chris our posts crossed.

Thanks, so boy service with the Royal Engineers pre war followed by ww1 service. Attached photo in Yeomanry and one I think in Salonika.

 

 

Yes, that certainly looks to be the case. I would agree that it’s Salonika, there are Greek soldiers among the group, as well as a Greek Sailor.

Edited 6 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Dragoon]

Good photos!

The picture of him on the horse he is Yorkshire Hussars.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Dragoon said:

Good photos!

The picture of him on the horse he is Yorkshire Hussars.

 

Yes, that makes sense.  The first and third line units of the regiment were dismounted in late Summer 1917 and became battalions of the West Yorkshire Regiment whilst keeping their yeomanry connection, as a secondary title, as per convention. The second line became cyclists in Summer 1916 and remained so until the armistice.

 

The Derbyshire Yeomanry we’re deployed to Salonika in Feb 1916, but even when their brigade returned to Egypt in Jun 1917, the Derby’s remained behind until the end of the war, serving most of that remaining time as GHQ Troops of British Salonika Army.

 

It seems probable that our subject was transferred to the Derby’s as a replacement once the York’s were dismounted, probably because he was one of the more experienced yeomen and a trumpeter to boot.  You can read an informative piece about the Derby’s experience in the war here: https://www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/the-derbyshire-yeomanry-in-the-first-world-war/

 

 

Edited 6 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[James]

Agreed,

His MIC has 2 numbers both from Derbyshire Yeomanry, so he must have served overseas with them before and after renumbering in 1917.

As he did not have a MIC for the Yorkshire Hussars he must have served with the second line up to 1916 and probably as you say transferred upon the unit becoming cyclists.

Thanks for the link.

Thank you all for the rapid response and the information and photos. It never ceases to amaze me the depth of knowledge on these forums.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, James said:

Agreed,

His MIC has 2 numbers both from Derbyshire Yeomanry, so he must have served overseas with them before and after renumbering in 1917.

As he did not have a MIC for the Yorkshire Hussars he must have served with the second line up to 1916 and probably as you say transferred upon the unit becoming cyclists.

Thanks for the link.

Thank you all for the rapid response and the information and photos. It never ceases to amaze me the depth of knowledge on these forums.

Yes, I think that his starting with the 2nd Line of the York’s Y is most likely.  Given that he started as a RE regular, he would probably have been imbued with the tongue in cheek, but largely observed mantra to never volunteer for anything (he would’ve rubbed shoulders with RE veterans who had experience of action and pestilence during the 2nd Boer War) and so he probably did not possess an Imperial Service tablet.