Researching John Charles Parker 33467

[Spannerz]

Not sure if anybody is looking at this but I would like help finding information on my Grandfather.
I believe he joined up with the Bradford Pals.
Private John Charles Parker 33467 Yorkshire Regiment.
I wondered if he was listed and what info is available.
My belief is he was wounded in Italy and possibly was awarded the British War Medal and the Victory Medal, not sure if he was eligible for any others.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[sadbrewer]

I've got a John Charles Parker of 16 Rhine Street, Bradford.

Service number is 31467, East Yorkshire Regiment though.

Married to Catherine Higgins.

Edit....mistaken in transcription...it is actually 33467 on reading the original doc.

Edited 5 April , 2020 by sadbrewer

[BillyH]

The medal rolls show that 33467 John C Parker only served overseas with the 2nd, 6th, and 9th Battalions of the Yorkshire Regiment. These are not the Bradford Pals who I think were in the West Yorkshire Regiment..

the 9th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment did serve in Italy.

Have a look here :

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/alexandra-princess-of-waless-own-yorkshire-regiment-green-howards/

 

BillyH.

Edited 5 April , 2020 by BillyH

[TEW]

There is an MIC to a John C Parker 33467 Yorks Regt. Discharged class Z. Plain MIC, no date of entry which means he served abroad after 1915. Medals shown are BWM and Victory.

 

Not seeing a Casualty entry but if he was wounded between April and July 1917 there are no lists for ordinary ranks. Or, his wound didn't qualify for publication.

TEW

[sadbrewer]

His Service Record is available here  on Ancestry....

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1219/30973_183181-00857?pid=1525861&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1219%26h%3D1525861%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3Dubi12542%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=ubi12542&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.252664329.1896783947.1585567222-819446299.1529676875#?imageId=30973_183181-00859

 

started in the E York's and finished in the Yorkshire Rgt....was wounded...and in interesting if difficult to read letter from him requesting the Italian service ribbon.

Answer attached.

 

Edited 5 April , 2020 by sadbrewer

[sadbrewer]

From The Bradford Weekly Telegraph, December 1st 1916....courtesy of The British Newspaper Archive. 

 

 

[TEW]

Interesting regards his injury to foot date. I'm not seeing this in a Casualty List so can only assume either the wound didn't qualify even though he ended up in a base hospital or there's an original or transcription error via online source.

 

A quick search does show an Italian Service Ribbon, awarded to a VAD and troops from USA for 4 months service in Italy, known as the macaroni bar. Nothing in Taprell, Ribbons and Medals.

 

Can't actually see a theatre code for Italy

TEW

[Spannerz]

Hi, a massive thanks for all the responses. My Dad did tell me he was a Green Howard. I have a letter from a relative that told me he was an Overlooker which was a well paid job, but on return home due to his injury he could no do this job any longer. He walked with a cane and I have a photo of him in uniform with the cane. I've seen the bit in his record regarding the Italian service ribbon but could fin no other reference. The service record is difficult to read, I also noted from his record that he was recorded as being 5ft 9 but anecdotally we believed he was tall possibly 6ft 3. See below.

"With the out break of world war one, Granddad joined up with the Bradford Pals. It was into the Prince Of Wales Own Yorkshire Regiment. He was badly injured while serving in Italy. I don't know the year or how long he had served, but it was only by sheer luck he survived. He was shot through the hip. He was laid in a bomb crater for four days before he was found. There were two saving graces for him. Firstly the freezing conditions which stopped him from bleeding to death, as the wound froze, and secondly the bullet had passed straight through his hip. It had shattered his hip bone, but there was no lead left in the wound to cause any bad infection. I don't know how long it was before he made it home again, but he was in a poor way. There was no way at that time that the shattered bone could be removed or his hip be replaced. He was well disabled. Grandma had to help him with washing, dressing as he was unable to bend to reach his feet. He relied heavily on a stick to walk, and when it came to climbing the stairs Grandma had to go behind him to support him, coming down she had to be in front of him and hope he did not fall. Granddad was a tall man of 6ft 3ins. Grandma was just 5ft 2ins.

Granddad did work. Any work he could get, because he was unable to return to his old job as a Wool comber. That must have been very hard on the family, as a Wool Comber Granddad would have had one of the better paid jobs in the Wool Industry. "

                                                   

 

[Spannerz]

1 hour ago, sadbrewer said:

From The Bradford Weekly Telegraph, December 1st 1916....courtesy of The British Newspaper Archive. 

 

 

I've never seen this before but he did live in Rhine Street, is the text much longer?

[Stebie9173]

The above will be a short paragraph in the newspaper expanding on the casualty lists - the reporters got the casualty list and visited relatives to find out a bit more. The next paragraph is on a different soldier. There was generally about a month's delay between wounding and notification appearing in the local paper.

 

The photo is 1916 or thereafter - he is sporting a wound stripe on his left sleeve. These were introduced in 1916.

 

 

Steve.

[sadbrewer]

17 minutes ago, Spannerz said:

I've never seen this before but he did live in Rhine Street, is the text much longer?

 

No unfortunately that's was the sum total.

   Just a bit of advice....whilst the family reminiscences can be vital, they can also be wrong...often ridiculously wrong. In the course of doing my own family history, we contacted cousins who told me that after going over the top our Grandfather was wounded and posted missing.... but was looked after by a French family until the end of the war.

   Subsequent research has proved this to be a fantasy.

As to his height....the military medical record is most likely to be right...but....my Great Grandfather signed on for the RAMC in 1915, records say he was 50yrs old...in actual fact he was 62, so you never know, and tbd he looks as though he would be pretty tall in the photo.

 

Edited 5 April , 2020 by sadbrewer

[Spannerz]

4 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

 

No unfortunately that's was the sum total.

   Just a bit of advice....whilst the family reminiscences can be vital, they can also be wrong...often ridiculously wrong. In the course of doing my own family history, we contacted cousins who told me that after going over the top our Grandfather was wounded and posted missing.... but was looked after by a French family until the end of the war.

   Subsequent research has proved this to be a fantasy.

Hi and thanks again. The letter we have does have lots of info and most of it seems correct, it is however handed down information. It does give us an insight.

"1948 saw the start of the National Health Service. Granddads health was failing and by the end of that June Granddad had been sent to a convalescence home at St Ann's near Blackpool. He had been admitted to hospital a few times by then, Grandma managed to get some lodgings for herself and Jack near by so they could all spend some time together. She and Jack would go to meet Granddad to walk out a while during the day. It was on one of these trips out that Granddad took ill. Grandma's lodgings were closest so she took him there. The Landlady refused to let her take him in, so she had to get him back somehow to the rest home. Doctors were called and it was decided it would be better if she could get him home to Bradford. There was no ambulance service to take him, so it had to be a journey by taxi. The Doctor asked Grandma if she would be freighted of him if he died on the journey home. She told them no. She had never had any cause to be frightened of him while he was alive she had nothing to fear from him dead. He did make the journey back to their home, but was then admitted to St Lukes hospital where he died on the 11th July."

[sadbrewer]

27 minutes ago, Spannerz said:

Hi and thanks again. The letter we have does have lots of info and most of it seems correct, it is however handed down information. It does give us an insight.

"1948 saw the start of the National Health Service. Granddads health was failing and by the end of that June Granddad had been sent to a convalescence home at St Ann's near Blackpool. He had been admitted to hospital a few times by then, Grandma managed to get some lodgings for herself and Jack near by so they could all spend some time together. She and Jack would go to meet Granddad to walk out a while during the day. It was on one of these trips out that Granddad took ill. Grandma's lodgings were closest so she took him there. The Landlady refused to let her take him in, so she had to get him back somehow to the rest home. Doctors were called and it was decided it would be better if she could get him home to Bradford. There was no ambulance service to take him, so it had to be a journey by taxi. The Doctor asked Grandma if she would be freighted of him if he died on the journey home. She told them no. She had never had any cause to be frightened of him while he was alive she had nothing to fear from him dead. He did make the journey back to their home, but was then admitted to St Lukes hospital where he died on the 11th July."

 

 

 

Thanks for that....just to add a couple of small pieces, he was still on Rhine Street in 1939, although he had moved next door from No6 to 8...and he was employed as a Watchman by the Council.

[TEW]

Interesting. Wound stripe but can't find him in Casualty Lists.

 

Ah! Have just spotted 35467 J Parker Yorks. Regt. Daily list 8/1/1917. So an incorrect original entry.

 

Foot injury and shot through hip? Not discharged wounded but Class Z so recovered and back at it.

 

The description of the hip injury sounds more dischargable with SWB.

 

Two injuries? The 8/1/17 list could tally with the newspaper item in Dec 1916 but the paper can't have got the info from the Daily List.

 

Photo in my view at present is after Jan 1917 and recovered and in uniform.

TEW

[Stebie9173]

Here is my interpretation of his record:

 

John Charles Parker

• Aged 23 years 281 days on 20 November 1915
• A woolcomber
• Of 6 Rhine Street, Bradford
• Enlisted at Bradford under the Derby Scheme (voluntary attestation for later call up) on 20 November 1915
• Mobilised on 7 April 1916
• Posted to the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion of the East Yorkshire Regiment (at Withernsea), Regimental No. 18921
• First stint overseas from 7 October 1916 to 22 November 1916
• To France, 7 October 1916
• Entitled to the British War Medal and Victory Medal

• Posted to 1st Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment in France

• Transferred to the Yorkshire Regiment, and allotted new Regimental number 33467, at the Base Depot in France

• Posted to 2nd Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards)

• 2nd Battalion Yorkshire Regiment were part of 21st Brigade, 30th Division

• http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/30th-division/

• Wounded in foot 14 November 1916

• To England 22 November 1916
• In UK from 22 November 1916 to 29 July 1917
• Posted to Yorkshire Regiment Depot (physically in hospital) 23 November 1916
• Discharged from hospital to home furlough 17 February 1917 to 26 February 1917 (possible time of above photo?)
• Posted to Command Depot at Alnwick for rehabilitation on expiration of leave
• Temporarily attached for work at Alnwick Command Depot 9 March 1917
• Posted back to Yorkshire Regimental Depot 14 March 1917
• Posted to 3rd (Reserve) Battalion Yorkshire Regiment (at West Hartlepool) 4 April 1917
• Second stint overseas from 29 July 1917 to 11 October 1918
• Posted to 6th Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards)  29 July 1917
• Returned to France on 30 July 1917 and joined 37 Infantry Base Depot
• Probably did not join 6th Yorkshire Regiment
• Posted to 9th Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards) 16 August 1917
• 9th Yorkshire Regiment were part of 69th Brigade, 23rd Division
• http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/23rd-division/
• Served in Italy with 9th Yorkshire Regiment from 7 November 1917 to 7 September 1918
• 9th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment posted to 74th Brigade, 25th Division on return to the Western Front
• http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/25th-division/
• Gunshot wound (GSW) back, 6 October 1918
• Evacuated to UK wounded
• In UK from 11 October 1918 to 28 December 1918
• Furlough from 5 November 1918 to 11 November 1918
• Overstayed Furlough by 2 days (admonished)
• Joined Command Depot at Catterick
• Demobilised 28 December 1918 with 28 days leave
• Transferred to Class Z Army Reserve 25 January 1919
• Class Z Army Reserve disbanded 31 March 1920

 

Steve.

[Spannerz]

12 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

Thanks for that....just to add a couple of small pieces, he was still on Rhine Street in 1939, although he had moved next door from No6 to 8...and he was employed as a Watchman by the Council.

Sadbrewer really appreciate your time, information and help. It all helps build a better picture for my Grandson. I am trying to keep an eye out for his medals as nobody in the family has any knowledge of their existence. It's a long shot but if I can't find them I'll just get copies. I did just wonder if their was any information of him being in the Bradford Pals.

[Spannerz]

3 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said:

Here is my interpretation of his record:

 

John Charles Parker

• Aged 23 years 281 days on 20 November 1915
• A woolcomber
• Of 6 Rhine Street, Bradford
• Enlisted at Bradford under the Derby Scheme (voluntary attestation for later call up) on 20 November 1915
• Mobilised on 7 April 1916
• Posted to the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion of the East Yorkshire Regiment (at Withernsea), Regimental No. 18921
• First stint overseas from 7 October 1916 to 22 November 1916
• To France, 7 October 1916
• Entitled to the British War Medal and Victory Medal

• Posted to 1st Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment in France

• Transferred to the Yorkshire Regiment, and allotted new Regimental number 33467, at the Base Depot in France

• Posted to 2nd Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards)

• 2nd Battalion Yorkshire Regiment were part of 21st Brigade, 30th Division

• http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/30th-division/

• Wounded in foot 14 November 1916

• To England 22 November 1916
• In UK from 22 November 1916 to 29 July 1917
• Posted to Yorkshire Regiment Depot (physically in hospital) 23 November 1916
• Discharged from hospital to home furlough 17 February 1917 to 26 February 1917 (possible time of above photo?)
• Posted to Command Depot at Alnwick for rehabilitation on expiration of leave
• Temporarily attached for work at Alnwick Command Depot 9 March 1917
• Posted back to Yorkshire Regimental Depot 14 March 1917
• Posted to 3rd (Reserve) Battalion Yorkshire Regiment (at West Hartlepool) 4 April 1917
• Second stint overseas from 29 July 1917 to 11 October 1918
• Posted to 6th Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards)  29 July 1917
• Returned to France on 30 July 1917 and joined 37 Infantry Base Depot
• Probably did not join 6th Yorkshire Regiment
• Posted to 9th Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards) 16 August 1917
• 9th Yorkshire Regiment were part of 69th Brigade, 23rd Division
• http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/23rd-division/
• Served in Italy with 9th Yorkshire Regiment from 7 November 1917 to 7 September 1918
• 9th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment posted to 74th Brigade, 25th Division on return to the Western Front
• http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/25th-division/
• Gunshot wound (GSW) back, 6 October 1918
• Evacuated to UK wounded
• In UK from 11 October 1918 to 28 December 1918
• Furlough from 5 November 1918 to 11 November 1918
• Overstayed Furlough by 2 days (admonished)
• Joined Command Depot at Catterick
• Demobilised 28 December 1918 with 28 days leave
• Transferred to Class Z Army Reserve 25 January 1919
• Class Z Army Reserve disbanded 31 March 1920

 

Steve.

Hi Stebie9173

I really appreciate that comprehensive list of information. Most of that I was not aware of, I struggled to make sense of his service record but did see from his medal card his entitlement to the 2 medals. Would he have received the Silver War Badge? I couldn't see this anywhere.

[Stebie9173]

No he would only have received the Silver War Badge if discharged early due to his wounds. He was discharged normally at the end of the war (probably still in partial recovery from his wound in October 1918). He applied for a pension. There is a page in his records recording pension allowances.

 

 

Steve.

[Spannerz]

Here is another photo of him I think!

 

4 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said:

No he would only have received the Silver War Badge if discharged early due to his wounds. He was discharged normally at the end of the war (probably still in partial recovery from his wound in October 1918). He applied for a pension. There is a page in his records recording pension allowances.

 

 

Steve.

Appreciated, that clears that up. I assumed he had been discharged early but the new info clears that up.

[Stebie9173]

The 2nd Yorkshire Regiment were in action at Guedecourt on 17/18 October 1916. I haven't seen a specific date for him joining 2nd Battalion but I would suggest that it was after this battle as a reinforcement. The battalion then moved to trenches at Bailleulmont near Arras where he was wounded.

 

Link to War Diary

 

His second wound was at the village of Moislains - probably from shrapnel artillery fire while the battalion was digging in.

 

Ancestry War Diary link

 

 

Steve.

Edited 5 April , 2020 by Stebie9173

[Spannerz]

Just to say to everybody that has contributed a massive thanks. I can't believe how fast you have replied and really appreciate all your contributions. It helps me build a more complete picture of the Grandfather I never knew and my Father only knew for a short time.

[Spannerz]

17 minutes ago, Stebie9173 said:

The 2nd Yorkshire Regiment were in action at Guedecourt on 17/18 October 1916. I haven't seen a specific date for him joining 2nd Battalion but I would suggest that it was after this battle as a reinforcement. The battalion then moved to trenches at Bailleulmont near Arras where he was wounded.

 

Link to War Diary

 

His second wound was at the village of Moislains - probably from shrapnel artillery fire while the battalion was digging in.

 

Ancestry War Diary link

 

 

Steve.

Hi Stebie9173

So from this it would appear he wasn't wounded in Italy but most likely France and twice?

[Stebie9173]

Yes - Once in November 1916 south of Arras with 2nd Battalion (foot wound) and once in October 1918 at Moislains, east of Albert on the Somme (back wound - probably air burst shrapnel). The 9th battalion returned from Italy in September 1918.

 

 

Steve.

Edited 5 April , 2020 by Stebie9173
Year correction

[Stebie9173]

Just for confirmation - the records of 33438 Ernest Pratt show the same date of embarkation and transfer as John Parker, and give more information i.e

 

• Serving with 3rd Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment in the UK
• Posted to 1st Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment for embarkation overseas
• Embarked overseas from Folkestone, 5 October 1916
• Arrived at No. 37 Infantry Base Depot
• Transferred to the Yorkshire Regiment under Army Council Instruction 1499 of 1916, allotted a new number and posted to 2nd Battalion Yorkshire Regiment on 17 October 1916
• Joined 2nd Battalion Yorkshire Regiment on 19 October 1916

 

 

So it looks like he did join as a part of reinforcement for the 200+ casualties taken by the battalion at Guedecourt on 17/18 October 1916.

 

 

Steve.

[Spannerz]

On 05/04/2020 at 12:40, TEW said:

Interesting. Wound stripe but can't find him in Casualty Lists.

 

Ah! Have just spotted 35467 J Parker Yorks. Regt. Daily list 8/1/1917. So an incorrect original entry.

 

Foot injury and shot through hip? Not discharged wounded but Class Z so recovered and back at it.

 

The description of the hip injury sounds more dischargable with SWB.

 

Two injuries? The 8/1/17 list could tally with the newspaper item in Dec 1916 but the paper can't have got the info from the Daily List.

 

Photo in my view at present is after Jan 1917 and recovered and in uniform.

TEW

Hi TEW

Just reading this again, what's the SWB reference regarding his hip injury. I have his service record but it very badly copied and difficult to read.